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Thread: Zimmerman/Martin

  1. #11
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    Another tragedy here is it enhances the Kitty Genovese effect.

    Catherine Susan "Kitty" Genovese (July 7, 1935[1] March 13, 1964) was a New York City woman who was stabbed to death near her home in the Kew Gardens neighborhood of the borough of Queens in New York City, on March 13, 1964.[3]
    The circumstances of her murder and the lack of reaction of numerous neighbors were reported by a newspaper article published two weeks later...

    --Wikipedia
    For those of you old enough to remember this it made national headlines, shocked the nation, caused considerable soul searching, triggered social psychologist research and made a lot of people wonder what was going on in New York where citizens "didn't want to get involved".

    People were blown away a young lady was attacked and screaming for help and no one acted to help her.

    Here's a factoid that makes my blood run cold: "When Robert Mozer, one of the neighbors, shouted at the attacker, "Let that girl alone!" Moseley ran away". That little act of yelling chased of the attacker. Unfortunately for Kitty the demented attacker returned, hunted her down, stabbed her some more, raped her and stole her money.

    If Zimmerman had been there Kitty would have been saved and there's a good chance Moseley would be extinct.

    If Zimmerman's version of what happened is correct Trayvon earned his bullet. Like I heard a PCC officer explain to a punk student who threatened violence because someone "disrespected" him: "sticks and stones will break your bones but words will never hurt you".

    Back to Kitty, if society makes it too complicated for me to help I might just close my window and put on my headphones to drown out your screaming. I might consider dialing 911 but that may also make my life get too complicated so maybe not.

    Someone might ask: "Why didn't you call 911!!" I might answer: "I had my headphones on listening to death metal music and I thought it was part of the song."

    See how easy it is to avoid the nightmare of playing pain in the a$$ ball with Monday morning quarterbacks? No good deed goes unpunished.
    Last edited by Marc.N; 04-29-2012 at 06:28 AM.

  2. #12
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    No, Large. That site was set up weeks ago. I read about it in a news article and even clicked the link to look at it. There was money that came in for his defense fund starting right away.

    It is being claimed that Zimmerman doesn't have access to those funds - I have no idea of who does, other than maybe his attorney who claims to have shut the site down - http://therealgeorgezimmerman.com/ - if you try to access it you'll get a page saying that the site is no longer available. The site was allegedly shut down on the 27th or so. The attorney claimed, though, that he didn't know anything about the site.

    At the time of the hearing that site had taken in somewhere around $204,000 but that was not disclosed to the court. Later that same day someone spilled the beans and suddenly the defense attorney is making a public statement claiming he didn't know anything about it and shutting the site down.

    Yes, I do know how this works - the bond itself is supposed to be his guarantee that he's going to show up in court, but the Judge is taking into consideration the family's income - what they can afford or not - and that could be because perhaps the family may have filed something along the lines of a motion informa pauperis - a declaration that they can't afford legal fees or a defense attorney or a stiff bond. Somehow, somewhere, the court was apparently under the impression that the family is the next best thing to indigent - and it is common for things like this to be brought up at a bond hearing.

    As for what I do or don't see on tv - you forget, I don't watch TV and I don't even know what the heck CSI is - sorries.

    I do know what I've seen in the courtroom in the past, and investigations I've worked on - I know how investigations work - and I do have a bit of an intuition.

    You have to take into consideration the written laws of the land along with the caselaw which is the courts interpretation of the written law, and I'm telling you right now - Martin had every right to act in self defense that night. His acting in self defense does not allow Zimmerman to claim self defense.

    BUT - How this is presented in court will make all the difference in the world, because the defense is creating a diversion by causing the focus of the issue to be in the middle of the incident rather than the beginning. He's trying to redirect the focus of the people which casts doubt on a potential jury - and I think the judge SHOULD have put a gag order on everyone because of this.

    If I were the defense, I'd probably be doing the same thing. If I were the prosecution, I'd be redirecting the focus of the people back to the beginning of the incident.

    Again, I can't stress enough - Florida's law contains NO duty to retreat. This means that that the person who thinks that they are in danger for their life DOES NOT HAVE TO BACK OFF - even if the aggressor appears to or claims to have backed off themselves.

    The defense has already tried to claim that this is a bad law in order to sway potential jurors to reach a verdict despite this law - but this is Florida's written law - so it must be taken into consideration. Now, a fully informed jury knows they can rule against it anyway, which is what I think the Defense is hoping for - but they still must consider it when putting the facts together in order to form a verdict.

    Here in Colorado Zimmerman would probably get off easily - because Coloradoans are stupid - they don't care who instigated anything.

    Do I think Zimmerman is the bad guy? Yes, I do - for instigating this whole thing. This is, apparently, not the first time he's instigated such a thing, and now someone - an innocent someone - is dead. If he'd have just stayed in his car and let the police do their jobs, then that boy would be alive right now and Zimmerman wouldn't have to be standing there defending himself. His own power and control issues are what led to this. Or maybe it's some form of paranoia - I don't know - I don't think Zimmerman is right in the head. I think he is probably overly leery of others and this incident is the result of that.

    Things that are going good for him - with the exception of his not disclosing his website money to the court, he appears to have been otherwise cooperative. So we'll see what happens.
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  3. #13
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    Regarding Kitty - Large - please understand the difference between a crime in progress and a kid walking down the street.

    If citizens see a crime in progress - someone is yelling for help and being hurt or threatened - it is not illegal to step in and come to someone's aid.

    But what was the crime in progress in the Zimmerman/Martin case? A kid walking down the street talking on his cellphone? Was the hoodie a crime? He didn't even have that up until after he started being followed - according to the girlfriend he was on the phone with - he told her he put his hood up when he was being followed.

    You don't just hop out of your car and chase a kid who is merely walking down the street. If Martin had been assaulting someone, that may have been a different story, but he wasn't. He was simply walking down the street on his way back home to watch the rest of a basketball game when he was accosted by Zimmerman. It was Zimmerman who committed the crime by accosting Martin to begin with. He should have just left the kid alone. If he really thought the kid was suspicious, then he did the right thing by calling the police.

    I'd like to point out that while the autopsy reports have not been released yet - they will answer the question of whether Martin was under the influence of anything, and will also show whether there were signs of Martin engaging in a struggle with Zimmerman.

    And, do you know anything about broken noses? Allegedly Zimmerman's nose was broken, but I have seen absolutely no evidence of that whatsoever. People are focusing on the back of his head (that picture looks photoshopped), but no one is focusing on the alleged broken nose. No bleeding, no swelling, no deviated septum. very interesting...

    Personally, at this point I think Zimmerman is fulla hooey. And if that autopsy report shows no drugs in Martin's system - then that will speak volumes. If it shows Martin was under the influence of anything, then that will change things just a wee bit, but it still won't justify Zimmerman chasing Martin down and accosting him. I don't think anything is going to change my opinion of that unless someone can prove Martin was in the process of committing a crime that needed immediate deterrence - unable to wait for the police.
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  4. #14
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    Oh, and one other question - about that photograph - people say it was taken from his wife's cell phone three minutes after the incident.

    There is no mention of Zimmerman's wife being at the crime scene or witnessing any of it. The police allegedly cleaned him up at the scene and took him downtown. So who took the picture, and who released it to the press? Funny how that mysteriously appeared at the time it did. Just sayin'...

    Also, if that pic is real - his head would have still been bleeding enough to see the blood in the images when he was being escorted out of the police car at "the office". I know head wounds - they can bleed worse than they really are and they don't like to stop that easily. If he as really pounded into the pavement the way he claims, the blood in that picture would have looked a little different - and the bleeding likely would have continued enough that you'd have seen more clear signs of it in the images taken from the surveillance cameras. Plus, he should have been examined for any signs of concussion - and there doesn't seem to be any talk of that anywhere.
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  5. #15
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    Something interesting here - I'm looking at a printout of a 911 call log of George Zimmerman's 911 calls dating from 8/12/2004 to 2/26/2012. This document is 47 pages long. He has called 911 for things like a pothole, a stray dog, an open garage door, and a woman sitting in her car. There are numerous calls reporting suspicious black males.

    In answer to an earlier question of mine - this guy has followed quite a few of these - not sure if he actually chased any of them, but it's apparent that he was at least following them for a distance.

    Some of these remarks, "unable to catch up" indicates, to me, the possibility of a chase. Feel free to see this for yourself -

    http://s3.documentcloud.org/document...ll-history.pdf
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  6. #16
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    Here are some resources - and before you read them I need to state that while there is some bias in this article - it comes out loud and clear - this particular writeup has a ton of valuable information that you can check out and weigh for yourself.

    Despite the bias in the article, they do link to their resources - which makes the article a little more well rounded than others I've seen. I happened to come across this article just this morning while I was researching the issue a little more. And for the record, it is a turn off to me that it is biased against Zimmerman because I prefer to draw my own conclusions for myself - I don't want to participate in anyone's bandwagon.

    There is a video interview of the 13 year old witness - I saw another youtube video that he made and put on youtube and I wish I'd have saved the link because I'd like to post that here.

    Anyway, the deal is, the kid in the video takes ABC news to the scene and points to where the shooting happened. You'll see that the area is a bunch of townhouse style homes back to back with a walkway running through them. There is no street there - no parking lot - that's several feet down. So there's no way that Zimmerman was attempting to get into his vehicle when this happened.

    Also, please read the whole article - you'll see that they did post some remarks in there about how one officer wanted to arrest Zimmerman on the spot because he didn't believe his story but was told not to by a higher up.

    Now, I am not familiar with the police department in question, and when I made my own observation of how they apparently mishandled this case I had no idea that they had come under fire in the past for mishandling other cases, especially those involving black victims.

    While I can't say that I see racism in Zimmerman's intentions, I can see implications of it elsewhere. As for Zimmerman, I can't help but wonder whether he has a fear of black men just because of all those phone calls he made. Not as a racist, but as someone who may be mentally ill. I can certainly see how the race card has played a role in this and why.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...rtin-explained


    http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-mar...7#.T51fe9Xnj3C



    By the way I need to stand corrected - I had stated it was 1 minute from the time the phone went dead until the time the police arrived, the link above indicates that it was 5 minutes.

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/video...le-he-s-seen-bEfore

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  7. #17
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    Well, I'm sure going to take anything reported by "MotherJones" as gospel . .
    "A man with a firearm is a citizen... a man without one is a subject"

  8. #18
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    No, and you shouldn't. I had to weed through a lot of their bias myself - but they post some resources that you can see for yourself and pick up a clue or two. Although I did see SOME balance in their reporting - they weren't completely anti-Zimmerman, but they do seem to take the position that this whole thing was racially motivated.

    They do bring up some good points, though, about why Zimmerman wasn't tested for drugs or alcohol, that sort of thing. And in Zimmerman's defense - if he really did get pounded, he SHOULD have gone right to the hospital to have that all documented - that would have helped his case if it happened the way he said it did. On the other hand, if it didn't, then it would also have proven him wrong. Waiting to go in and be examined casts doubt on where the injuries documented could have come from.

    I don't think Zimmerman set out to kill the kid, I think he was just trying to be the boss of the neighborhood is all. When push came to shove, though, a life was taken and it was the result of a completely unnecessary act of aggression. That's what needs to be dealt with by the courts.

    I don't think he should be let off the hook on this, but I don't think he should be dragged out into the street and lynched, either. I think the wheels of justice need to do their thing and the guy should get a fair trial by an impartial jury. Of course, considering the way this has hit the news, I hope he can find an impartial jury.
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  9. #19
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    Problem is . . It was a "Shooting" in a small town in Florida. So many just like it never even make the back page of a paper from the area it happens in . . What the Hell, besides Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the Black Panthers putting a bounty on the White Guy's head, makes this one any different?

    Is it a "Racial" or "Hatred" crime when a Black guy caps a white guy in chicago, or shoots a random Latino in East LA? Probably was, in actuality, but where is it in the media and all you trash talkers with media generated facts . . ? Don't see a d@mned thing in the media, and you don't say a d@mned thing . .

    This is a totally one sided story, with totally one sided opinion, working not with hard fact, but fact(s) generated by biased media and biased spokespeople . . Where do you get any idea of "Fairness" or accurate fact coming from Trayvon's family or the Black community at large? You won't because if the hard and accurate (or known) facts are put out there, there's nothing to quibble about or demand "Reparations" for . . Those crying "Foul" for allowing Zimmerman bail, and then crying "Foul" again when he posted it aren't interested in justice or due process, they want him available to be killed, either in Jail or on the street . . Jail would be the easiest . . There's no demand for "Justice" here, it's just a cry for a lynching and if it doesn't happen then there will be burning and looting . .

    The only thing that's changed in 50 years is the color of the lynch mob!
    "A man with a firearm is a citizen... a man without one is a subject"

  10. #20
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    I was posting my response and it disappeared. lol!

    OK start over -

    I think some people can turn anything into a racial issue - they're hellbent on being victims.

    As for Zimmerman, I don't think the shooting itself was racially motivated, but by all appearances, Zimmerman's many calls to 911 reporting suspicious black males (one of them being a young child) he was apparently uncomfortable with black males. Is that racism? I don't know - it's something, and I can see how race is being played as an issue here - not that I agree with it, but I can see it.

    I don't know Zimmerman so I can't say this with any certainty, but the impression I get is that he's not racist although somehow uncomfortable with black males that he doesn't know. I think that's more a form of stranger anxiety than it is racist, but I'm no psychologist, so I don't know - people will read into that what they want, I guess.
    Opinions expressed by me are mine only and are not in any way, shape, or form representative of the Pueblo Chieftain or Pueblo Community Forums.

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