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large
05-31-2012, 08:45 AM
Notably, on the front page of the paper (our host) today was an article about the Judge Maes-Jeff Chostner Memorial Judicial Building and the fact that, while digging in a river bottom, they encountered "WATER" . . and it will change the estimated cost of the building . . .

http://www.chieftain.com/news/local/high-water-table-alters-work-at-site/article_fabff790-aad9-11e1-b956-001a4bcf887a.html

Oferchrissake! Who would've ever thought that, if you dig a hole below the water level of the adjacent river, in a former river bed occupied by the adjacent river, that you might find "Running Water" . . ? D@mned Physics tend to get you everytime!

And, you didn't have to spend a lot of money on soils engineers and bore holes to find this out. They could have just asked Louie Carleo, the owner of the Midtown Shopping Center. In the basement of the center, where the Bowling Alley resides, are 4 (or 5, can't remember) pumps, and usually, at least 3 of them are all pumping about 250-300 gph into the storm sewers, 24/7 . . At San Carlos Forensic Prison, just North of the Shopping Center, there's running water at around 13' below grade. Know it for a fact. And that's uphill of the new Memorial Judicial Building site . . 2 Blocks East, there's running water at around 25' below grade. Again, know it for fact. It's called Empirical History, and the only people the County Commissioners, the Engineers and Houston Construction are fooling, would be the more ignorant of the population who are being asked to pay for this, no questions asked . .

Basically, I'd tend to believe that it's a smokescreen to hide the enevitable multi-million dollar cost over runs that're sure to follow . .

Give Commissioner John Cordova a hat tip on this one . . he knew better . . and I think he said so . .

Marc.N
05-31-2012, 04:46 PM
I knew so obviously they knew. There's no doubt backroom money and profit is involved. Stay tuned for the entertainment.


:popcorn:

Bob Nattering
05-31-2012, 08:52 PM
Notably, on the front page of the paper (our host) today was an article about the Judge Maes-Jeff Chostner Memorial Judicial Building and the fact that, while digging in a river bottom, they encountered "WATER" . . and it will change the estimated cost of the building . . .

http://www.chieftain.com/news/local/high-water-table-alters-work-at-site/article_fabff790-aad9-11e1-b956-001a4bcf887a.html

Oferchrissake! Who would've ever thought that, if you dig a hole below the water level of the adjacent river, in a former river bed occupied by the adjacent river, that you might find "Running Water" . . ? D@mned Physics tend to get you everytime!

And, you didn't have to spend a lot of money on soils engineers and bore holes to find this out. They could have just asked Louie Carleo, the owner of the Midtown Shopping Center. In the basement of the center, where the Bowling Alley resides, are 4 (or 5, can't remember) pumps, and usually, at least 3 of them are all pumping about 250-300 gph into the storm sewers, 24/7 . . At San Carlos Forensic Prison, just North of the Shopping Center, there's running water at around 13' below grade. Know it for a fact. And that's uphill of the new Memorial Judicial Building site . . 2 Blocks East, there's running water at around 25' below grade. Again, know it for fact. It's called Empirical History, and the only people the County Commissioners, the Engineers and Houston Construction are fooling, would be the more ignorant of the population who are being asked to pay for this, no questions asked . .

Basically, I'd tend to believe that it's a smokescreen to hide the enevitable multi-million dollar cost over runs that're sure to follow . .

Give Commissioner John Cordova a hat tip on this one . . he knew better . . and I think he said so . .

Ah yes. You're speaking of common sense. But common sense goes out the window, when it comes to locating real estate. Why, because real estate is all about location, location, location and not about cost. Look at the gargantuan effort of New York City to keep the river water out of the subway tunnels after 9/11. Virtually all major cities grew up on the banks of a river and engineers have been solving water problems ever since. Sure, they knew the river bottom was a high risk area, but that's where they wanted their real estate. By limiting their initial engineering studies, they could say they didn't know the exact level of the water table. That approach has been used to sell public projects for many years. It wasn't an accident that nothing was said about the I-25 Broadway bridge in Denver needing replacement when they sold T-Rex without including the $120M cost to replace that bridge as part of T-Rex. It wasn't an accident that I-80 through Nebraska was built on river bottom sand that routed it through all those small towns along the river. The maintenance and varied engineering solutions are incredible along that route as they try to keep slabs of concrete between expansion joints level until they wear out. Maybe the best example is the concrete block structures of the 50's and 60's with flat roofs. Those were some low cost buildings. Do you think anybody with any common sense thought that a flat roof wouldn't leak? I worked at Rocky Flats that was built in the 50's and all the buildings were concrete with flat roofs. Every single roof leaked for 50 years. I worked with a guy who said, "We had a barn in rainy Connecticut with a hole in the the roof you could throw a cat through. It didn't leak as much as the roof on this building."

large
06-01-2012, 07:03 AM
When you actually look at the new Judicial building, it's estimated cost and how we got there (as well as where it's going) there's been little engineering and a lot of Politicking . . We started with the burned down ice house and it's remnant Asbestos, which turned into a money pit of gargantuan amounts ($2.4 Million, plus or minus), which we dubbed "The John P. Cordova Memorial Parking Lot" . . Then, the County Commissioners decided to cover their bets (and @sses) by putting the new "Judge Dennis Maes Memorial Judicial Building" on the site, for another $51 Million. Now this is just a minimum estimate, according to the designers and the contractor, and we have no idea what the casework and finishing furniture will cost. But I'm pretty sure little if any will be moved from the old Judicial Building on 10th. So, to keep from having happened in the City Hall Remodel (same contractor, oddly) where they over ran the budget by about 250% and still ended up with a lot of unfinished and unfurnished rooms, after designing and starting a building designed to be built (apparently) on a solid granite substrate (that doesn't exist) they are telling us that they "Found Water" and it will "probably" cost more . .

Sure it will. Betchersweet@ss!

When it's all done, the money's all spent, Chostner's the new D.A. and John Cordova's saying "I told you so", poor ole Nunez will be hanging in the wind. And everybody's @ss will be covered but his . . And, I'll bet, before it's front doors open and the first gavel bangs a bench, the taxpayers will have spent just under $70 million dollars to build it. Remember, they don't have adequate parking to comply with even the minimum code requirements V. sq feet, and someway, some how, they'll have to come up with it. On this site, they can't use the Baptist Church parking lot and the Cathedral parking lot for overflow . . But, somehow, because it's a "government project", I suppose, they still got a building permit.

Nonetheless, because of practicality, they're going to have to buy up at least a block belonging to somebody, with your money, to park their "customers" and participants. And if I were the owners of the "King Block" directly North of the site, I'd be looking into prime condos in the Phoenix or Miami areas, possibly beachfront in Corpus . . .

ButwotthehelldoIknow?

Loren Swelk
06-01-2012, 01:52 PM
Doesn't John Cordova pass himself off as an engineer, or did he work for Burlington Northern?

large
06-01-2012, 03:59 PM
I could be wrong here, but, I believe Cordova was (and is) against the Construction of the new Judicial Building. At least at this time and with the current methods of financing it.

Dunno about his being against it because of the site and ground water. No one on either the county commissioner's board or any of their agents, engineers or contractors have ever brought up "Ground water' as an issue. However, knowing Houston Construction's history, I am amazed that they didn't go to the excavation contractor and demand they file a claim on their builder's risk to cover the added cost . . They have before!

Chuckie
06-07-2012, 04:25 AM
(This whole post is sarcasm)

So when does the City of Pueblo get to claim the water rights to all this "new" water they found? They could sell those rights and pay for the entire building.

large
06-07-2012, 05:57 AM
(This whole post is sarcasm)

So when does the City of Pueblo get to claim the water rights to all this "new" water they found? They could sell those rights and pay for the entire building.

No, according to the State Water Engineer Dick Wolfe, that water belongs to Kansas . .

Marc.N
06-07-2012, 07:13 AM
And will it have a "wellness center" and movie theater?

Chuckie
06-08-2012, 07:08 AM
No, according to the State Water Engineer Dick Wolfe, that water belongs to Kansas . .

I think you missed the sarcasm line I started my post with. I wasn't serious.

large
06-08-2012, 07:29 AM
So was I . . But still enclosed a "drop" of truth . . . .

large
10-11-2012, 10:05 AM
And will it have a "wellness center" and movie theater?

They really don't know. If this is done anywhere like the City's last two projects, they'll have the building built before the plans are finished . .

'Course, that generally comes with a little cost "Overrun" . . but what the heck, the City's only $5 million plus over the initial estimate on the City Hall refurbish . .

Something like +300%!

Sooo, if the current County Commissioners can hand the project off to another bunch of Commissioners (Which is gonna happen) the old ones won't be responsible for the "Unseen Problems and changes needed) and the New Commissioners can add all kinds of stuff (and money) and blame the old board . .

That's "Political Economics 101" . . . . . .