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Sandra
10-27-2011, 02:21 PM
Has anyone seen this? It's outrageous!
Four schools targeted for closure (http://www.chieftain.com/news/local/four-schools-targeted-for-closure/article_7e4c4bde-0050-11e1-b184-001cc4c002e0.html)

Chuckie
10-27-2011, 03:24 PM
What did you expect? It's not like the teachers union is going to take a pay cut.

Sandra
10-27-2011, 03:49 PM
Ironically, they're planning to close at least one of the city's higher functioning elementary schools, and they'll be shipping those kids to one of the city's lowest functioning elementary school - which is Minnequa.

Loren Swelk
10-27-2011, 05:20 PM
They should close Risley and make theose East side schools PreK-8th grade.
That way the kids are easily manageable in the elementary school environment and don't have 3 years to become little gangbangers at Risley before they go to East.

Sandra
10-27-2011, 06:07 PM
Loren - that's not a bad idea! lol!

large
10-28-2011, 07:25 AM
Has anyone seen this? It's outrageous!
Four schools targeted for closure (http://www.chieftain.com/news/local/four-schools-targeted-for-closure/article_7e4c4bde-0050-11e1-b184-001cc4c002e0.html)

"Outrageous"? Not really. This is reality rather than terroritorialism. While it would be nice to have an elementary school next door, for a variety of reasons, the cost to pay for staff and maintenance for a school with declining attendance is nonsense in even good times . . which there currently ain't . . .

When a population ages, school attendance diminishes. It's one of the basic reasons a community is always looking to "Grow' . . Growth is what brings (or keeps) younger families in a community . . and those "younger" families are what feed the schools system . .

The old folks just continue to pay for them, whether the schools are under used or not . . .

large
11-03-2011, 07:44 AM
The 55 member board (dunno how many attended) had their "Re-purposing Workshop" meeting last night. No public input was accepted. However there will be two meetings coming up, and public input will be invited . .

Watch the paper for times and places . .

Sandra
11-03-2011, 09:05 AM
Thanks, Large.

Those meeting times and places are as follows:

Wednesday, November 9 @ 6pm, Centennial High School Auditorium
and
Wednesday, December 7 @ 6pm, South High School Auditorium

The public is invited to provide comments at these.

Each presenter will be asked to sign up to speak that evening and will each be limited to 3 minutes.

The final report can be viewed at www.pueblocityschools.us (http://www.pueblocityschools.us) or you can call 549-7178 for more information.

Loren Swelk
11-10-2011, 12:54 AM
It is absolutely ridiculous to have 5 year olds crying into the microphone at a district hearing. To allow that to happen is a colossal waste of time.

large
11-10-2011, 07:02 AM
Here's the deal . . IF . . all those people truly feel the need to keep those schools open at the costs that're projected, do it . . But send the same people the bill and make them responsible for those same costs . .

Loren Swelk
11-30-2011, 12:34 PM
It looks like the District is trying to go back to the old elementary, junior high, senio high system. It worked for me. I don't believe that the school board has the huevos to close schools though, they will screw around until the state takes over. By that time Stephanie will be running for county commissioner and it won't be her problem any longer.

Loren Swelk
12-06-2011, 11:15 PM
It will be interesting to see how all of this "public hearing" stuff filters out. Word coming down to several school administrators I have spoken with say it is almost a done deal and barring any last minute juggling, the second option accepted by the school board and already publicized is the final plan.

Sandra
12-07-2011, 08:29 AM
There's another meeting tonight. My concern about Carlile is that the District's excuses for wanting to close it are lame brained and their figures inaccurate. They didn't count the preschoolers or the special needs students in attendance, which is crazy - they attend, too! If they were included the change in attendance would be drastic - not to mention that this year they have a new special needs program so their attendance rolls increased even more.

I think it's lame brained to blame the whole thing on the boiler system - saying it will cost 1.5 million dollars to replace - to which I say MALARKY!!! I'd like to know where they get those figures from. Plus they say that the entire building is going to need to be "replaced" piece by piece - that it's falling apart at the seams. I've been in that building numerous times, and I just don't see any seams falling apart in there. Also, if that were the case, I'd smell it - old buildings that are falling apart have distinctive odors that trigger breathing problems in me - I have this reactive airway thing going on, but I have no trouble at all breathing in that lovely old building. I do think the gym should have the carpet removed and a real gym floor put in there - that carpet looks old and worn, stretched out in a few places. Other than that, it doesn't look so bad to me.

When we consider the plans for Carlile - they come up with reasons why they should close the building stating that it's too expensive to run - but then they turn around and say they want to put the District offices in there, or rent the building. Huh? They'd STILL have to fix the boiler system for that - landlords are responsible for their buildings.

Carlile is a high functioning school - and they want to place those kids in lower functioning schools. I'm thinking that someone in the District thinks that if they do that then the other schools scores will raise and it'll make the district look better. No it won't - not as a whole. D60 is a low functioning district overall and placing higher functioning children with lower functioning ones will only lower the higher functioning kids' scores because of the lower quality of education they'll be getting. So moving the kids that first year might look great, but they aren't really doing anything to fix the problem. D60 needs to take more pride in its educational system, and wasting money by moving students around and redrawing district boundaries and zones is NOT going to save the district any money, all it will do is shift where the money is being spent.

Loren Swelk
12-07-2011, 10:52 AM
Have you said all of that to them through the comment here section of their website.
There isn't an elementary school close to Carlile, the rest have other elementarys nearby. Somerlid/Morton, Spann/Bradford/Baca, Beulah Heights/Hellbeck. The closest to Carlile is Heritage which is a performance school an a relatively new building and that my be their underlying rationale.
Howver the boiler smokescreen is hooey. They replaced the heating system (at least the funrace with the last bond issue.

Sandra
12-08-2011, 08:21 AM
I actually did not send my comments because I was planning to be there last night. Unfortunately I was not able to make it, so I'll submit my comments to them via their website today or tomorrow. Meanwhile, I hope they see it here - I've told them about this forum and topic.

I didn't know that about the furnace, that's very interesting. I know it works pretty well - last time I was in there I nearly passed out from the heat. I keep my house a little on the cool side, so that warm building was too much for me. lol!

BTW I'm thinking long and hard about the idea of moving the kids to Central and creating the STEM academy. I somewhat don't mind that idea if they HAVE to close the school, but at the same time, that school is a neighborhood anchor - as most neighborhood schools are - and with all the money that's already been put into it, it seems a shame to close it. I'm just not so sure that it's appropriate to have all those different age groups in one building - especially in a public school setting.

Loren Swelk
12-08-2011, 08:36 AM
Did you see the comment about the deal for PCC to buy Carlile? Interesting, and certainly within the realm of the PCC plan.

Sandra
12-08-2011, 09:29 AM
I didn't see that. Is that a yikes? What would PCC do with it? (Maybe THEY could run it. PCC elementary school.)

Loren Swelk
12-09-2011, 12:17 PM
Two interesting points, the second needs more research. OK, three points.

1. The district enrollment is down 624 students from last year, that is more than the combined enrollment of half of the elementary schools marked for closure.

2. Enrollment is down over 8,000 students in the last 30+ years with the same number of schools. How many "district administrators" did we have then? More research needed.

3. Why does the district need a high priced mouthpiece to speak for the superintendent? I have heard Dr. Lopez speak several times and she is articulate, honest and forthright. Might the school board be afraid she might be the one to publicly tell the king (or in this case the queen) she is wearing no clothes?

large
12-09-2011, 03:14 PM
Let me bring part of my thesis from the "City Council's Spending Agenda" Thread:


As for the "Declining Attendance", in the last article including a press release from Pueblo City Schools, they stated that overall, they could not identify a specific cause for the declining attendances. But when you have increasing enrollment, you build schools. When attendance declines, you close schools. It's really no more complex than that . .

And then Loren notes that enrollment is down 8000+ over the last 30 years . . yet we have added schools, just as we have added Fire Stations . .

But we closed the old Fire Stations . . for the most part . . Schools? Not so much . . Just as we want to have no more than 3 minutes response from the "First Responders", we want no more than a five minute walk to school for our kids . .

But as the (or any) city expands and grows . . the core loses population and the more affluent move outward. They are also the ones with the kids who need education . . and use their considerable weight to have schools built in their neighborhoods . . but do we close a balancing number of older classrooms? No, because of Nostagia, or fear of cultural co-mingling, or for a plethora of other reasons, some too silly to bring up . . point being, it takes almost a Tornado, Tsunami, or Earthquake to close a school, especially in Pueblo, Colorado . . It took District 60 THREE years to close Thatcher School . . .

The solutions remain . . Economically (and that's the bottom line) you have to reduce the overall number of classrooms, thus reducing the number of teachers, and support staff, as well as a corresponding number of maintenance and upkeep staff . . . and, as Loren, again, correctly stated, reduce the number of administration staff to correspond with historical numbers seen in the past . .

Sandra
12-09-2011, 03:18 PM
Loren, your first point shows why it is important that this city do more to accomodate and even encourage growth. But that's another topic for another time, because there's such a thing as too much growth, which the city seems to be afraid of - and rightfully so under current conditions - and there is such a thing as too little growth. Some growth would bring in more families, more money into our local economy, and more students.

BUT - jobs are scarce and closing schools makes them that much more scarce, and who wants to move to the 9th most dangerous city in the US - which also just happens to have some of the lowest performing schools in the state, according to our score ratings?

I think CSAPs are a large part of the problem. Kids are performing for the CSAPs, not for their own education - which is a disservice to the entire community. I think CSAPs should be abolished and we need the Iowa Basics brought back.

large
12-09-2011, 03:22 PM
HEY! Wanna talk about the Schools or about City Council . . ?

Get back here where you belong . . .

Loren Swelk
12-09-2011, 03:25 PM
I think CSAPs are a large part of the problem. Kids are performing for the CSAPs, not for their own education - which is a disservice to the entire community. I think CSAPs should be abolished and we need the Iowa Basics brought back.

Kids are performing for the CSAP's because that is what is being taught. The teachers are under so much pressuure to have good CSAP scores that they are forced to "teach to the test". If it doesn't stand the possibility of being on the CSAP test, then it will fall be the wayside in the lesson plan.

large
12-09-2011, 03:45 PM
Now, about Growth and the Schools . .

The nature of the thing is that as a city or town physically expands the schools follow, as I Illucidated earlier. And there's all sorts of things that can and often do happen . . The old schools in the core becomes the "Dumping Ground" for the less talented or ineffective teachers, most of whom are Tenured and cannot be fired by less than an act of Congress and a decision by the Supreme Court. That's one of those things that happen when a city grows quickly, generally. Or as in Pueblo, the citizens move into new areas, leaving older neighborhoods to the renters or the elderly, and for the most part, Build new schools as they move . .

Now, physical growth in Pueblo, and coloring within the lines is a chore . . Because? Geographic Barriers and economics . . Just about the only directions left to expand the city is North up the East side of the Fountain River, and South to the ridge that defines the St. Charles drainage to the South and the Pueblo basin to the North and West. East of I-25, south of Pueblo is basically an I-2 area, West on 76 is filling in and directly west on 96 is all State property (The Dam) and anything over the ridge is out of play because of development costs . . Pueblo, physically, is about as big as it can get unless it decides to annex the St. Charles Mesa . . And That ain't gonna happen . . For about 10,000+ reasons . .

So, basically, the Pueblo School District is going to have to learn to live within their means, put out a superior product and do it very efficiently . . because what you see now is pretty much what you're gonna get!

Loren Swelk
12-09-2011, 07:13 PM
Well this is certainly a game changer (http://www.kdvr.com/news/politics/kdvr-judge-rules-colorado-school-funding-unconstitutional-20111209,0,4038603.story)

BREAKING NEWS: Judge Sheila Rappaport rules in favor of the Lobato Trial (http://www.greateducation.org/lobato-trial-updates/)plaintiffs, finds that Colorado is not complying with the constitutional right of every child to a "thorough and uniform system of free public schools."

The state of Colorado was found be underfunding K-12 education an amount possibly in the billions of dollars.

Sandra
12-09-2011, 08:46 PM
WOW! What a find! I am TOTALLY impressed!

Sandra
12-10-2011, 08:08 AM
Kids are performing for the CSAP's because that is what is being taught. The teachers are under so much pressuure to have good CSAP scores that they are forced to "teach to the test". If it doesn't stand the possibility of being on the CSAP test, then it will fall be the wayside in the lesson plan.


Exactly! And that's the problem. I had hoped that when Governor Owens left office that his CSAPs would leave right along with him - because they've done nothing but make Colorado's already bad educational system worse.

large
12-10-2011, 08:35 AM
On Loren's Post; It will be appealed. And if the current decision holds, the State of Colorado can basically, declare bankruptcy . . There in nowhere enough revenue to enable the State to finance the court's recommendations . . and then the state can go back and use TABOR as their reason no more revenue can be raised . .

On CSAP . . what the Hell do you mean, "Teaching to the Test"?

When I was in school, eons ago, the teacher taught and gave you work on specific things relating to the subject you were supposed to be learning. You also had homework related to that particular subjective section, and then on Friday, generally, you were tested on what you had learned that week . . That test was generally 50% of your grade for that week's period of time . . At the end of the semester you took a test on everything that had been presented to you on that subject, and that grade was 50% of your overall grade for the subject. I'm going to assume that this was . . "Teaching to the Test"?

How the Hell do you figure out that anyone has learned diddly squat if you can't test them on it? CSAP is just a "Standardized" Test, and it should show a standard level of learning across the state's student population. It's nothing more than a exotic "Jay Walking" test. It tests "General Knowledge" on a standardized format . .

How would YOU test the state's high school graduates to find out if the Public Education System is working? (We know it isn't)

Sandra
12-10-2011, 08:43 AM
Large, the CSAPs are so difficult that the teachers have to form their curriculums around the test. It used to be that Standardized tests tested the student's knowledge and ability to learn - and did not "set" the curriculum standards. But now - the curriculum standard is based on a CSAP, and interferes with a normal curriculum, and does not allow for teachers to meet the needs of the students because now the focus is on meeting the needs of the test. It makes no consideration or concession for special needs children or gifted children, although you almost have to be gifted to pass the durned thing. This test is meant to measure school overall performance, so pressure is put on the students to perform for the school rather than the school performing for the students. It's just very backwards and stupid.

It used to be that education expanded the mind, equipping students with the ability to think and reason. Now it's more of a 'rote' kind of thing. They're learning that 1 + 1 = 2, but not why. They're learning vocabulary without learning why a word is pronounced a certain way or why it means what it does. How many students today know what a word root is?

They're so busy learning the answers to the CSAPs that they're not learning anything that expands their ability to think and reason for themselves. I am CONVINCED that the dumbing down of America started with Colorado's CSAPs.

large
12-10-2011, 09:22 AM
Back to my question . .

How would YOU test the state's high school graduates to find out if the Public Education System is working? (We know it isn't)
__________________

Loren Swelk
12-10-2011, 10:22 AM
Back to my question . .

How would YOU test the state's high school graduates to find out if the Public Education System is working? (We know it isn't)
__________________

I agree that a proficiency exam should be passed before a high school diploma is given, however the CSAP does neither. It does not test an individua'ls proficiency, it tests a schools. The CSAP's begin in the 3rd grade. How are we going to know that "Johnny can't read" when the test tells us only that 13% of the 3rd graders in John Q. Public Elementary School are proficieant in reading? We don't know who the heck they are, but there are 87% of them who ain't(?) proficient.

I would really like a professional educator who has lived and worked under the CSAP program to weigh in here, because I am passing along information given to me from various teachers and administrators, not first hand knowledge.

large
12-10-2011, 02:29 PM
OK, I have a problem with all this . .

The proficiency of the individual Educators should be judged by the proficiency of the students they teach . . If Johnny can't read at second grade level after finishing the second grade or third grade level when he's completed the third grade, then that becomes the teacher's problem . .

When I was teaching College Level, It dazzled hell out of me that I could have High School Graduates that couldn't read the numbers on a paint can. Where do you start blaming the teachers that passed this kid on up the system? Who started vouching for the fact that although totally illiterate, this kid was ready for the next grade? And why didn't the next teacher recognize the problem and rat the last one off?

This shows you that it isn't a CSAP test that is needed, it's teachers who choose to "Teach" the children they are sent rather than adhere to a Union driven idea that it's none of their business or "There but for the Grace of God go I" . . or worse (and I know this happens too), the Administrators and Principals who are directly involved don't want waves made . . and woe be unto the teacher who becomes concerned . .

The whole F--king system is corrupt and needs (quite like our Government) a lot of changes in people and attitude . . I also think teachers ought to be paid what they're worth, rather than what they think they're worth . . Based upon results, rather than Union arbitration . .

large
12-10-2011, 02:44 PM
I would really like a professional educator who has lived and worked under the CSAP program to weigh in here, because I am passing along information given to me from various teachers and administrators, not first hand knowledge.

I don't think we're going to attract any local teacher, active, retired or p*ssed off, to get into this . . Because? I've made pretty much what I said in the above post argument to several ex friends over the years and they usually just get mad and stomp off . . They really don't have much of an answer other than "You're not a Teacher, so you'd never understand" . . but I, too, would welcome any constructive input or debate about this. Perhaps something usefull might pop up . .

Sandra
12-10-2011, 06:55 PM
I'd like to see some educator opinions here, too - in fact I've invited several to participate here.

Large, did you scare them all away? lol! j/k!!!

large
12-11-2011, 09:22 AM
When you posit the argument that I continue to pursue, because no one has ever answered it, you aren't going to attract many teachers into this debate . .

Several are willing to blame others, starting with the lack of interest by Parents, of course, the community at large, and of course, the real problem, We don't pay the teachers well enough . .

And (of course) I've got something to say about that . . We either pay Public School Teachers too well, or private school teachers not well enough, because there's a gigantic gulf between the salaries of the two groups . . Private and Parochial School Teachers are paid (generally) only half to two thirds of the salaries their tenured peers draw in the Public School sectors, with far punier benefit packages . . Yet, given the choice, if they can afford it, most would send their kids to the Private or Parochial School . . That should tell us something . .

Getting back to the lack of interest in defending the public school system up here, is the simple fact that few if any can defend the system when asked those questions . .

Sandra
12-11-2011, 10:12 AM
When you posit the argument that I continue to pursue, because no one has ever answered it, you aren't going to attract many teachers into this debate . .


So in other words, yes you are scaring them away! (Just kidding!)

Seriously, though - the educators I know have pretty much said what Loren is saying - although they're also saying that while they don't think the CSAPs were meant to interfere with their lesson plans, it's exactly what they're doing because the teachers don't feel that they have the flexibility they'd like to work with their students. There is such a tremendous focus on those durned things.

Also, the CSAPs have been implemented for what - 15 or so years (approx) now? So many teachers today may not know what teaching life was like before the CSAPs and those that do are mostly retired now.

My own observation - as a parent - I've been around the western half of the US - and no where have I seen so many school closings as I have in Colorado - especially after the implementation of the CSAPs, which was Governor Owens' baby. In fact, I don't recall any school closings in any other state I've been in except for one where the school burned down, but it was rebuilt.

So I can't help but wonder what the link between the CSAPs and school closings are - is it just more "throw away" attitude? Our schools, like our marriages, have become disposible?

In California, for example, if a school building can't be repaired, then the students are taught in portables while the building is razed and rebuilt. I don't know what they do about low attendance, though - I don't think that they have that problem there as overcrowded as the state is, so I can't make a comparison to Colorado schools on that one. Plus the cost of living in California is so high that their schools have the money for that. The thing is, schools in California have a higher priority than schools in Colorado - when it comes to funding. The difference between here and there is like night and day.

And then there's Kansas - not exactly a rich state - but their schools manage to stay open. How do they do that? I'm beginning to think we need to send D60 admin on a field trip to a few different states so they can see how other Districts outside of Colorado operate without closing their schools - especially those on lower budgets. Maybe they can get some ideas and implement them here. Salina, for a long time, had schools that were dwindling in attendance. But I don't recall any of them ever closing. Salina, according to the last census, has a population of almost 48,000. Rounded about, that's roughly half the size of Pueblo. (Those of you who want to get technical - ok, less than half the size of Pueblo.) They have fewer resources than we do, so how are their schools staying open? Their idea of a school closing involves inclement weather.

large
12-11-2011, 11:16 AM
I believe that the CSAPs are just one more excuse in a long litany of excuses . . The idea that we can't teach students what they need to know because of a state mandated test is Bullsh*t, dried and crumbled . . Try this, "Johnny can't read because I had to teach to the test instead" and justify it . .

Root Problem . . If 13% of our third graders are all that the third grade graduates at a permissable reading proficiency, it sure as Hell isn't the CSAPs that's the problem . . and if a kid can't read at the third grade level upon completion of the third grade, he's toast . . Quoting my own sainted Mother, who taught second and third grade for 35 years . .

Where is any effort at Quality Control here? We have an assembly line for teaching them in the Public Schools, but when they get to the end, and their wheels fall off, no one is held accountable, with the exception of the taxpayers because they didn't pay enough to assure better quality . . And we know that's crap because the results haven't gotten any better in the last 30 years . .

And again, while I might seem to be picking on the Public School Teacher's pay, it's the differential that I see. Public School Teachers are paid, generally, about 30 to 50% more than those in private or parochial schools but don't put out a 30 to 50% better student . .

Somebody out there Justify that!

Sandra
12-11-2011, 11:45 AM
I agree with you about the teacher's unions and all of that, but I disagree with you about CSAPs being just another excuse - and that's from the perspective, again, of a parent and a person who has discussed the matter with educator friends througout the years. I think Colorado schools did far better without those stupid CSAPs.

To answer your question about where's the quality control - that's what the CSAPs were supposed to be - in a sense - to measure the quality of education the children were getting. But it all backfired - it hasn't had the ability to acccurately measure that.

By the way, do you have a resource or anything for where you get your information about public school teacher pay vs. private school pay? I ask that because I graduated from a private Christian school - and it wasn't cheap! And I got an awesome education out of the deal.

large
12-11-2011, 12:00 PM
To the resource question . . Hmmm, lessee, My Mother taught in Dist 70 for 35 years, My ex wife, now retired, taught in Dist 60 for her entire tenure, as did her Mother (Bradford) and Aunt(Irving) . . and I have two close friends whose wives taught in private and parochial schools until retirement . . I could go on, but I won't . . Well, I will . . in fact a close friend (not as much now) whom I grew up with was the CEA Union Rep prior to Carole Partin and in our often spirited discussions, I always needed facts to argue my points . . And as it wasn't on the internet I could quote names and amounts . .

As for CSAP . . By itself? You're kidding . . how about some beachfront property in Avondale, AZ? And . . You were told this by whom? An "Educator"? That's like listening to an inmate in DOC telling you he's not guilty and it's the judge's fault . . . or asking the sheep "how does the farmer treat you?"

Sandra
12-11-2011, 12:41 PM
Did your mother or ex teach during the time CSAPs were in place, out of curiosity?

No one is saying the CSAPs by themselves have been to blame for low quality education in the schools - but the subject of CSAP of it's own merit (and I use that word loosely) is that it has had an adverse affect on education. The system wasn't perfect before CSAPs, by any means, but CSAPs only made it that much worse.

I agree with you that there are many factors that are part of why our educational system is broken, but the point I've been trying to make is that the CSAPs have been nothing more than a waste of time, effort, and money that would have been better spent on actually improving the quality of education rather than making our educational system so much more dysfunctional.

The educators I've known througout the years are mostly very good educators - truly concerned with education and who aren't one bit happy with Colorado's educational system. Well, a couple of educators I know are Professors - one is a dear friend the other is my second dad - and their place in the educational system never involved CSAPs, so I've not discussed this matter with either of them. Now, some of the educators I know are not the least bit impressive as educators - and I've not really bothered to discuss this issue with them because I already think they are lousy teachers without a clue and I have no patience or tolerance for people like that teaching my children. I simply can not put up with that, my children deserve the best.

Every school has it's good and bad educators, for the most part - and it doesn't take long to see who is who. You can tell a good teacher without even talking to them just by looking at their classroom. How organized is it? How creative is it? Is it geared for the mentality of those they're teaching? Then, during school hours - you can walk down the hall and hear who the better teachers are. How many teachers are actually engaging the students in active learning, and how many are sitting there berating their class? How many teachers aren't paying attention to their unruly students? I've seen that, too. There will always be students that act up in class, but when you see a teacher sitting there while the rest of the class has erupted into total chaos - there's something wrong with that. This is not the picture of a learning environment - and I say that as an observant parent. So there are many issues that go into a poor education - I agree 100% with you on that - CSAPs are, in my opinion, yet another brick in that wall - but they make up a pretty big portion of that wall.

large
12-11-2011, 01:39 PM
Sure, CSAPs are, as you say, "Another brick in the Wall,pt IV - Pink Floyd" BUT . . CSAP was enacted because of the decline of student proficiency. It was an attempt to figure out who the "Bad Teachers" are, but it did nothing, other than provide, yet, another excuse, rather than any kind of solution.

However . . All the "Educators" you speak of will (and do) speak ill of CSAP. Why? Because it was an attempt to make them accountable for their failures . . But, just like the Post Office system, quality control and basic purpose is overridden by a central organization who, actually, doesn't give a fat rat's @ss about your kids or my grandkids, and that's the Teacher's Union. And the Teacher's Union will continue to dictate how it's done and who will do it . .

You can set up a PAC, run a campaign to take a Congressman out of the House of Representatives easier than you can fire a Teacher or a Mailman! Just about the only thing that will get 'em fired instantly is getting caught having sex with a student . .

Now, another villian that might be blamed for the woes of teachers and their limited success would be the "Revolving Syllabuses" that is created by the two company that makes and sells 90% of the school books to 90% of the school districts . . Just about every two years, the two companies that sell them tell the teachers that their books are "Obsolete" and thus, so is the current syllabus they are teaching . . Which causes one to ask . . just how many ways can you pronounce and spell C A T ? Change the program every two years or so, eventually ending up back where you started eight or nine years down the road doesn't make for any kind of morale builder in the Teacher's Corps either . . .

Another insight I have gained from my contemporaries is the fact that many of them became teachers, worked and retired, and during that time, they were friends and associates . . And I got to hear a lot of "War Stories" . . again, were this not on the net, I could name names, but I shan't . .

Basically, most School Districts are nothing more than a State Funded Bureaucracy that for about 40 years, didn't have to give a **** about the product they turned out . . Simply because no one could pin responsibility on anyone, and everyone figured that Johnny would be drawing unemployment and the teachers who were responsible for him would be retired . . But all that is coming home to roost and the parents and taxpayers are beginning to demand a dollars worth of education for a dollars worth of money . .

Loren Swelk
12-11-2011, 01:46 PM
Private and Parochial School Teachers are paid (generally) only half to two thirds of the salaries their tenured peers draw in the Public School sectors, with far punier benefit packages . . Yet, given the choice, if they can afford it, most would send their kids to the Private or Parochial School . . That should tell us something . .



That is an excellent point.



By the way, do you have a resource or anything for where you get your information about public school teacher pay vs. private school pay? I ask that because I graduated from a private Christian school - and it wasn't cheap! And I got an awesome education out of the deal.


Remember Susan, a private school does not receive the per pupil monies from the state a public school does so they have to charge the student in order to provide a quality education. In Pueblo that amounts to about $7,500 per student. That is why there was all of the bickering and fingerpointing with The Hernandez's. The district was forced to give them all of their per pupil money for a student attending Cesar Chavez or Dolores Huerta with no oversight of the school. Of course Lawrence and family were paying their teachers bupkes while lining their pockets.

Sandra
12-11-2011, 02:35 PM
The educators I know also call for accountability, Large. But again, my issue with the CSAPs is how they're implemented along with how they've interfered with the curriculums. Sure, maybe they were an attempt to hold teachers accountable - but it's not working, nor has it ever. It was a poorly created and poorly implemented program put into place by a governor who was more of a dictator than anything. It needs to be scrapped.

As for pay differences between private schools and public - I was a student of a private school, but I don't know how much the teachers were paid, that's why I asked about your resources on that. I know that the tuition is more than I can afford.

I do think it is noteworthy that the teachers in private schools who you say make so little are turning out more highly educated students. I'd like to point out that private schools are immune to the CSAPs...lol...or, at least they were the last I knew.

Loren, If you're addressing me, I'm still Sandra - always have been, always will be - *big smile*

http://images.christmastimeclipart.com/images/2/1202169880576_15/img_1202169880576_151.jpg

Loren Swelk
12-11-2011, 03:58 PM
Loren, If you're addressing me, I'm still Sandra - always have been, always will be - *big smile*

My bad. Sorry. You can call me Larry until 4:00pm MST tomorrow.

Sandra
12-11-2011, 04:30 PM
Larry! As in the cable guy (http://www.larrythecableguy.com/)? rotfl...

Ok back on topic...

large
12-11-2011, 07:23 PM
The educators I know also call for accountability

Not really. All Public School Teachers say that, but . . does any of them send Johnny back down when he can't read the grade level he just graduated from? Do they go to the Principal and tell him and the other administrators that the teacher in the grade below isn't doing his/her job?

Nope, doesn't happen . . and even if it did, then that teacher would have his/her tit in a wringer with the principal, because they made waves . .

The system is corrupt . . The thing that you can really count on all public school teachers to do is cash their checks . . That's harsh, but it's reality . .

Of course there are capable teachers working in the public school system, but 99% of the time, they too, have to go along to get along . . After all, once you get Tenure, are you gonna throw it all away and take a 30 to 50% cut in pay and bennies? Just for altruism?

Probably not . . at least I haven't seen any examples . .

Sandra
12-11-2011, 07:28 PM
Not really. All Public School Teachers say that, but . . does any of them send Johnny back down when he can't read the grade level he just graduated from?


Without hesitation! The thing that keeps teachers from doing that is District Policy.

large
12-12-2011, 07:54 AM
Well, here's a fact . .

Since 1970 we have doubled the amount of money we spend on education and there has been no corresponding increase student proficiency . .

Thus, in her decision, the Judge was wrong. Our school districts aren't underfunded, they're inadequately operated!

Sandra
12-12-2011, 10:53 AM
Thus, in her decision, the Judge was wrong. Our school districts aren't underfunded, they're inadequately operated!


Can't disagree with that! But that money is supposed to help pay for capable educators. I wonder why it doesn't seem to work that way?

large
12-12-2011, 11:57 AM
Can't disagree with that! But that money is supposed to help pay for capable educators. I wonder why it doesn't seem to work that way?

First, apparently you have to have "Capable Educators" and then a system of educating children that works . . Throwing money at anything that doesn't work doesn't seem to solve the problem in general. We continue to "fiddle" with the system, but get little or no results, and the truckloads of money that's been heaped upon it has been, for the most part, wasted . .

The Public Schools System, were it any other endeavor, would be shut down, many of it's executives and the Union Bosses that have benefitted mightly over the years would be jailed, and something that works would be put in it's place . .

But, like most other Government operations, it has become an "Entitlement', unable to be changed or dissolved and all those who take the taxpayers money and demand more for no forseeable positive results will cry and moan when change is threatened . .

Sandra
12-12-2011, 01:05 PM
There needs to be some checks and balances implemented here somewhere. I have a hunch that a large part of that "waste" is the fact that anyone who sells any item or service to a school is going to do so at a much higher cost than the public at large because it is a government instution and governmental institutions "can afford it". I think it's the concept of Davis Bacon Act - that is, there must be prevailing wages paid to anyone doing any government work - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis-Bacon_Act
http://www.wdol.gov/

I think that people automatically assume "the government can afford it" and whether it's a Davis Bacon issue or not, will just automatically charge more anyway. If I lived in a house as big as Carlile school, would I be charged 1.5 million dollars for a heating and a/c system? Somehow I doubt it. Then again, maybe I would be because people who live in houses that big should be able to afford such a thing...

Anyhoo - I'd be willing to bet that most teachers would love to receive Davis-Bacon wages!

Loren Swelk
12-12-2011, 01:16 PM
Can't disagree with that! But that money is supposed to help pay for capable educators. I wonder why it doesn't seem to work that way?

I don't know if every school district is now this way, but Pueblo City Schools seem to have an inordinate amount of central administration. Very highly paid central administration.

large
12-12-2011, 02:32 PM
Typical modern bureaucracies . . the only way an administrator can become worth more is to have more "Administration Staff" under them . . The more people you supervise (or whatever) the more money you can demand . . or worse, the District Administration and School Board will pick some other district with a similar population and tell us that so and so at so and so district makes $Xxxx amount while we only pay $Xx . . so we must pay $Xxxx because our current administrator might up and leave for greener pastures . . Totally disregarding the unsimilar tax bases . .

And based upon the results, I can speak of at least two who did . . and Roy Clark sang their song . . "Thank God and Greyhound, you're gone!"

And we're paying the one we have now, far too much . .

Loren Swelk
12-13-2011, 10:18 AM
Here is the pdf from this morning's Chieftain. It certainly highlights where the problems lie. Every traditional Pueblo middle school received an F. Something is going on right at Heritage Elementary. I would say it was the ghost of Edna Hellstern roaming the halls, if the school she had principaled for many years on that site that Heritage replaced hadn't been razed to build Heritage.

School rankings by letter grade (http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/chieftain.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/73/e73617be-2572-11e1-8526-001871e3ce6c/4ee724f36c59e.pdf.pdf)

large
12-13-2011, 11:45 AM
However . . . On the opposite page was a congratulatory editorial patting two Schools on the head for getting The John Irwin School of Excellence Award . . and only one was apparently graded in the grading . . Connect (in 70) received a "B" in the grading, and Fountain wasn't graded because of a "Lack of data" . .

Does this show us that, perhaps, we ought to figure out how to grade them equally and under all of the same criteria?

How can schools be graded so differently by two different "grading systems"?

Another question. Just a few years ago, Bessemer Elementary was drawing accolades from all over the country for it's reading excellence . . What happened here?

large
12-15-2011, 09:18 AM
And to comment on something I said back up the line in this thread . . Regarding Private and parochial Schools . .


By the way, teachers at public schools are twice as likely as other parents to send their own children to private schools. That ought to tell us something. -- Walter E. Williams

Sandra
12-15-2011, 12:18 PM
By the way - I posted a topic on this board with all the links to articles surrounding this issue and D-60 in general (lately) here (https://pueblocommunityforums.com/showthread.php?t=3575).

Have you seen the latest? I wonder why they don't just close all the schools and get it over with. Poor grades, dwindling attendence rolls, no money - D-60 is beginning to look a bit like it is going the way of the Titanic.

City schools expect $1.9M shortfall (http://www.chieftain.com/city-schools-expect-m-shortfall/article_a481d1b4-26db-11e1-b3c9-001871e3ce6c.html) (Thursday, December 15, 2011)
-- Board may have to tap reserves to make up deficit.

large
12-15-2011, 03:21 PM
But, they did bring up Bessemer School and it's drop to the basement in scores . . They didn't have any answer either . .

It surely must have been the building, it certainly couldn't have had anything to do with the staff . .

Sandra
12-15-2011, 04:57 PM
Several pages back, loren wrote:

Howver the boiler smokescreen is hooey. They replaced the heating system (at least the funrace with the last bond issue.


How can we find out more information about this and whether they did actually replace that furnace? Thanks...

Loren Swelk
12-15-2011, 07:03 PM
How can we find out more information about this and whether they did actually replace that furnace? Thanks...

Here it is along with the link to the full article:

Carlile received the least of the five schools at $1.7 million, which added two classrooms, a student drop-off loop and more parking. The school also received new furniture and a furnace. (http://www.chieftain.com/news/millions-put-into-schools-may-sit-idle/article_cefdd27c-1334-11e1-9964-001cc4c002e0.html)

Sandra
12-15-2011, 07:25 PM
Thank you, Loren.

OK, so today I was told that the janitor at Carlile turns the boilers on at 5:30 then has to turn it off because it over-heats the school (and it does get hot in there). Isn't a boiler different than a furnace?

Now I want to know whether they ever used that furnace, or just where it went. If it's as new as 2002 then it should still be repairable or under some kind of warrantee. Or, in the least, still working correctly. I'm going to send in a question about that to the school board, I think.

Loren Swelk
12-16-2011, 01:48 AM
It appears from the article in today's Chieftain that the new school board is not at all satisfied with what is going on with the school closing/realignment project. Plus fired school teacher and board member Rose Holloway and board president Sanchez seem to not be getting along already. Colucci has a valid point in his argument though. The citizens/students/teachers committee was all a sham and their report to the board was a smokescreen to cover decisions already made. Now however the new members are rocking the boat. Look for more highly paid consultants to come aboard so the board can throw massive amounts of money at them with the same result.

Sandra
12-16-2011, 06:15 AM
Unbelievable!

large
12-16-2011, 08:33 AM
It appears from the article in today's Chieftain that the new school board is not at all satisfied with what is going on with the school closing/realignment project. Plus fired school teacher and board member Rose Holloway and board president Sanchez seem to not be getting along already. Colucci has a valid point in his argument though. The citizens/students/teachers committee was all a sham and their report to the board was a smokescreen to cover decisions already made. Now however the new members are rocking the boat. Look for more highly paid consultants to come aboard so the board can throw massive amounts of money at them with the same result.

There's the problem . . Another situation where the "Politicians", this time the School Board, don't want to be the ones who "Bring the Bad News", ergo, "Telling the Truth" when it needs to be done . .

Waffling won't solve any problems, but instead, just put off the inevitable.

Sandra
12-16-2011, 10:45 AM
Well, I just hope that the latest bit of news turns out to be a good thing, that's all I can say. I'm going to think positive on this one!

Loren Swelk
12-16-2011, 11:23 AM
Well, I just hope that the latest bit of news turns out to be a good thing, that's all I can say. I'm going to think positive on this one!

Unfortunately doing nothing (or doing little) is not going to make the problem go away. The district does not have the money to support all of the district's schools. Forget performing or not performing, too many schools, too few students and too much overhead. Of course there are enough administrators in the admin building with teaching credentials to fully staff at least one school. That is a thought.
Spann was reopened with grant money, the grant goes away and the school is still open. Who pays for it now?
Tons of money was poured in to Bessemer Elementary, oops excuse me, Academy and what has been the ultimate effect? Nothing.
Corwin Magnet is doing well, it attempts to direct its 8th grade graduates to East to continue the IB program but where do most of the Corwin graduates go? Over 60% go to South, then more to Centennial than to East which does not help the IB program at East continue the IB pipeline. The IB program costs money to operate.
Also somewhere down the line the 800 pound gorilla in the room will have to be addressed, Central High School. Decaying building, declining enrollment, failing test scores all should not bode well for the school. I don't know what the enrollment is, but it is probably less than 900 and declining every year, eventually the bullet is going to have to be bitten on all of this. Losing almost 700 students a year should be an indicator that DRASTIC measures must be taken immediately, not in 2013 0r 2014 or to hire another consultant for a hundred grand. Note to the Pueblo City Schools School Board: Man up and do your job, for those without a pair, grow em now and stop the bleeding and continued failure of a once proud district and community.

Sandra
12-16-2011, 11:31 AM
A friend of mine yesterday told me that if the schools or Distsrict continue to fail then the state will take them over and run them. I gathered from what she said that this means they would likely replace people at the admin level and school staff too - but I could be mistaken about that part.

Then I asked her, "Then what?" Well, apparently after the school or district or both are running efficiently and up to standard the state would no longer run them, to which I expressed concern about them sliding downhill again.

One factor, I think, in the success of the schools is the demographics. If the parents aren't doing their job and the students are skipping school or copping an attitude, then what? Schools can only do so much - I think parents need to meet the schools halfway here by doing better for their children to begin with. But that's another ball of wax - there are some good parents out there and thier children do very well - and those students aren't getting the education they deserve, either, because of low performance.

Thoughts?

Loren Swelk
12-22-2011, 11:32 PM
The Education Department says seven states have won a share of $200 million in federal "Race to the Top" dollars to improve K-12 education programs.
The winning states are Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, New Jersey and Pennsylvania.
The Obama administration has awarded billions of dollars in such competitions to encourage changes in education that it favors. The seven states competing in this round were all runners-up last year. The department has said it wants to encourage them to finish and carry out many of the changes proposed in their earlier applications.
Competing states committed to make changes such as improving principal and teacher evaluation systems and turning around under-performing schools. They were asked to show specifically how they would improve science, technology, engineering and math instruction.

Sandra
12-23-2011, 09:30 AM
Interestingly, these are all key states for Obama for the election. Illinois, of course, is his "home base", so naturally they're going to get funds. If you compare the election maps from the last two Presidential Elections, you can see why he's working so hard to win four of those other six states. Two of them, NJ and PA are showing signs of being disillusioned with the DEM party, so while they're still mostly DEM he'd like to make sure they stay that way.

We know that he's been going toe to toe with AZ Gov Jan Brewer, too - so there is no doubt he's trying to buy some votes here, and he's using our school children in an attempt to win those.

Granted, the schools really need the money, but I just thought it was interesting how this particular year, states that were "runners up" last year and that are winners this year happen to also be the states he really needs votes from in order to win in 2012. There's just too much of a pattern for this to NOT be a campaign strategy.

In additions to the maps below, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states - this shows some other interesting details.


http://sensoryoverload.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/now_map_2.jpghttp://politicalmaps.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/2008-election-map-nytimes.png

large
12-24-2011, 08:05 AM
Do you honestly believe Barack Obama would use taxpayer's money to buy an election?

Naaawwwww, perish the thought . . .

Loren Swelk
12-24-2011, 10:43 AM
Colorado's share is only 17 million, not even a 1/7th share. By the time the state takes their administrative fee, Pueblo City Schools and the union takes theirs, their won't be enough left for a round of Starbucks's at the admin building let alone do anything for the students.
However the spin will be dizzying in the Obama camp.

Loren Swelk
01-01-2012, 08:07 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_23iOFi12Rrw/TQirQ9K1T8I/AAAAAAAACoY/yR6m40J_z_4/s1600/1.gif

Loren Swelk
01-13-2012, 12:22 AM
Unless the print edition of the Chieftain contains another news story, today's online report is extremely weak as compared to the electronic news media's reports over 2 hours earlier. Actually the TV stations Facebook posts came in all evening giving people a running update.

Here is all there is in Friday's Chieftain (http://www.chieftain.com/news/local/three-schools-to-close/article_bdbd7098-3da6-11e1-9b11-001871e3ce6c.html)

large
01-17-2012, 07:59 AM
Well, they did what any good politician would do . . Almost Nothing . . .

And they just found out that they're not $1.8 (or whatever) million in the hole, but $2.8 (or whatever) in the hole.

They closed two schools instead of four, and put one on probation (so to speak) pending Spann's ability to get a couple of grants . . $248,000 in one and another the following year, amounting to about $26,000 . .

This brings to mind the City Council's spending of $!.2 million on a park so that they wouldn't have to give back a $250,000 grant . . Or Congress cutting $500 billion in military spending and raising the debt ceiling another $1.4 TRILLION . . Penny wise and pound foolish . .

Do these F-----g people have any sort of clue?

Loren Swelk
01-17-2012, 09:34 AM
Well, they did what any good politician would do . . Almost Nothing . . .
Do these F-----g people have any sort of clue?

They do not understand who their constituency is. They try to appease the teachers union, the teachers and the parents, when the students in K-12 are their real constituency. However they can't vote.

Loren Swelk
02-18-2012, 11:08 AM
Kansas City schools fail. Another John Covington success story.
http://www.npr.org/2012/02/18/147067123/kansas-citys-failed-schools-leave-students-behind

Loren Swelk
02-20-2012, 08:52 PM
Interesting article in the Denver Post at slams Pueblo City Schools use of "turnaround grant money". (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_20002284) 7.4 million of the 12 million goes to administration
and the six schools involved get worse.

large
03-27-2012, 06:27 AM
Art Gonzales' Op-Ed piece from Sunday, March 25th . .


What are we getting for $8 million?

Posted: Sunday, March 25, 2012 12:00 am

By ART GONZALES

The Federal School Improvement Grant Program was initiated in 2009 by President Barack Obama and the U.S. Department of Education as part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act to stimulate the economy. It is a three-year program, so it has another year to go.
The program was and is being financed by billions of dollars in federal funds. The purpose of the act is to turn around underperforming schools so they will meet the requirements of No Child Left Behind Act.

Colorado and Pueblo City Schools opted out of No Child Left Behind, because the requirements were too tough. I don't think the state of Colorado has set the new standards yet, but I am sure they will be less stringent than was required by No Child Left Behind and something Pueblo City Schools can meet.

When Obama and the U.S. Labor Department instituted the Federal School Improvement Grant Program, opportunists all over the country smelted all these "federal funds" floating around with loose or no federal or state oversight and all of a sudden they became expert consultants, vendors or coaches.

Pueblo City Schools entered into a three-year, $7.4 million contract with New York-based Global Partnership Schools, a school turnaround company, to fix six failing schools. To add insult to injury, the contract includes a $510,000 annual management fee. It also adds a $185,748 per year for a "charge leader" (whatever that is) and $299,146 for 20 days of intensive instructional coaching in math for all six Pueblo City Schools receiving grant money.

The school district also entered into a $267,000 annual contract with two Pueblo leadership coaches (whatever that means) to work with three principals each "to provide sounding board ideas and build their capacity as instructional leaders.”

This sounds like a sales pitch from a snake oil peddler.

I wonder where all these vendors, consultants and coaches got all of their expertise and how many low-performing schools they turned around before Obama and the U.S. Department of Education turned this into a gold mine for these consultants, vendors and coaches or how many they have turned around since the program was initiated.

So far, the Pueblo City Schools have paid $8 million to consultants, vendors and coaches to turn around the six failing schools — Central High, Freed, Pitts, Risley and Roncalli middle schools and the Youth And Family Academy Charter School. Since the program began, performance scores went down at five of the failing schools, and there has been no change at Risley Middle School.

Some reform experts questioned why the state distributed the second-year funding this year to schools that showed no academic progress. State officials said that is the program's second year. It is too early to tell which of the schools will succeed. I think with an "investment" of $8 million, we should have made some progress.

This appears to be another Obama “investment" that headed south along with Solyndra and the battery manufacturer. There are probably other "investments" out there that headed south we don't know about. Not to worry, the billions lost on this "investment" are only a small part of the budget and are being paid for with federal funds. At this point, I don't think we are smart enough to figure out that federal funds come out of the same pocket as taxes to fund the city, county and state operations. All this is not unique to Pueblo and Colorado.

According to a recent Denver Post article, it is going on all over the country.

If the administration entered into these contracts with consultants, vendors and coaches on their own and spent $8 million for the failing schools to go backward instead of forward, the school board has to make some personnel changes. If the school board is aware that this is going on, it is obvious that we have elected the wrong people to the school board.

Every time I hear the word “consultant,” it reminds me of a story I heard years ago about the guy who had a tomcat that went out carousing every night. The guy thought that if he had the cat neutered he could get him to stay home. It didn't work. After the cat was neutered, he started going out as a consultant.

Loren Swelk
03-27-2012, 07:24 AM
Very concisely put. The only reason Risley didn't get worse was it was already the worse performing school in the state. It is hard to get worse than last. The school board had been very silent on this matter because they see the loss of the "grant money". What "grant money"? All it is is a pass through from the government to GPS with Pueblo City Schools as the unfortunate conduit.

large
03-27-2012, 07:39 AM
Basically Dist. 60 spent $8 mil to point the finger at anybody but them . .

Consultants give advice, right or wrong, Get paid, and give no guarantee of results . . nor responsibility of those . .

Marc.N
03-30-2012, 04:01 AM
8 million with lowered results. Sounds like some one figured out how to win the lottery without buying a ticket.

Amazing what one can do with "Professional Educator" jargon at the right place and right time.

:popcorn:

large
04-02-2012, 09:52 AM
And, in Sunday's Paper, in the ideas section was yet another plea from the Pueblo School District Boardmember Phylis Sanchez . . .

Let me quote
"There has been a lot of talk lately about what Pueblo City Schools should or shouldn't be doing to improve student achievement. Unfortunately, along with this dialogue has been a fair amount of finger-pointing.
Casting blame is not productive to student learning. Getting involved in the solution is."

Lessee if I can understand this now. We are continually throwing money at a problem that continues to get worse by the million. (dollars, that is) Yet there is no one or thing to blame?

Trouble shooting, whether it's on an engine that won't run or an educational system that doesn't work, requires "Finding the Fault". Without diagnosing the problem and eliminating it, you won't fix the problem. Yet, after another squandering of $8 million, we find ourselves deeper in the hole . . And the School Board President says "Don't assign Blame" . . Huh?

Could it be that there are far too many cooks making the stew now? With counterproductive recipes? How about going back to the fundamental idea of giving a third grader a third grade education and making sure he/she has that much education before passing them on up the line to people who can teach them if they can only READ.

Henson's Interviewee in his column a couple of Sundays ago said it, My mother, an Elementary School Teacher for 30 years said the same thing, for most of those 30 years . . Many retired elementary teachers will say the same, almost verbatium. Who is talking OVER those experienced teachers and giving out this expensive advice that isn't working?

Sure as Hell isn't the parents . .

Loren Swelk
04-05-2012, 12:32 PM
District 60 has lost over 500 students to District 70 in the last 2 years and at over $6,600 per student that amounts to over $3.5 million dollars in lost per pupil revenue. Now the Chieftain reports a huge upgrade in technology, including e-textbooks, while Pueblo City Schools is run by a bunch of Colorado Springs administrators who feel technology is far down the list of things needed for success, the first of course being consultants and outside experts.

http://www.chieftain.com/news/local/d-to-trade-dells-for-apples/article_9df0faf0-7e15-11e1-aa2d-0019bb2963f4.html (http://www.chieftain.com/news/local/d-to-trade-dells-for-apples/article_9df0faf0-7e15-11e1-aa2d-0019bb2963f4.html)

large
04-05-2012, 04:59 PM
The beauty of hiring consultants and outside experts is that you always have someone else to blame for the failures.

And the consultants and outside experts don't care because they get paid, results or not . .

And if they guarantee results, they just hand you a design that will cost so much it can't be done and tell you, "You didn't implement the plan like we told you to do, so it's not our problem" . . . Guarantee's off . . .

And the money's gone!