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Loren Swelk
12-14-2010, 02:13 PM
Now I finally have an excuse when people ask me why I drive a 10 year old truck, and don't buy a new one. (http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20101213/NEWS/101219942/1078&ParentProfile=1062)

Sandra
12-14-2010, 03:01 PM
New Car Smell has been known to cause people to have migraines and seizures. Something to do with the chemicals. This is the first time I've heard of someone just passing out from them, though. Wow!

large
12-14-2010, 05:35 PM
Aw com'on, that's bullpuckey . . a quick search didn't find another suit or criminal action blaming "New Car Smell" on either headaches, accidents or fatalities of any kind . . Granted, there are drying and curing aromas in all new cars, but none of them are dense (or toxic) enough to cause the things that they are being blamed for in Vail . . And REMEMBER, this is VAIL, home of a concentration of people lacking almost 100% common sense . . Just read their paper . . .

The guy had "Sleep Apnea" and probably shouldn't have been driving at all. I know several people who have been diagnosed with "Sleep Apnea" and are doing great under medication. However two of them cannot yet drive a car, because, they can (and do) go to sleep anytime, anywhere, doing anything . . .

And that's probably what happened, simply put . . But we always have to blame anything (or anyone) else for our accidental (and otherwise) misdeeds . . And his Lawyer is very Imaginative . . Perhaps his name is Stephen King . . .

Bob Nattering
12-15-2010, 07:21 AM
All I know is that I would certainly be sleep deprived, if I had to make payments on a 2010 Mercedes.

Marc.N
12-15-2010, 09:42 PM
New car smell makes me leave the scene of an accident?

Year, right. LOL!

large
12-16-2010, 09:43 AM
All I know is that I would certainly be sleep deprived, if I had to make payments on a 2010 Mercedes.

Owning a Mercedes is no big deal . . Maintaining "The World's Best Engineered Automobile" is . .

Been there done that . .

Bob Nattering
12-16-2010, 10:43 AM
Owning a Mercedes is no big deal . . Maintaining "The World's Best Engineered Automobile" is . .

Been there done that . .

I apologize in advance for hijacking this thread, but here goes:

First thing is to Large: I have read hundreds of your posts by now. I never saw anything that would have given me a clue that you would have owned a Mercedes. Just sayin, it surprised me.

I have heard horror stories about maintaining Mercedes. My son had a Volvo for a few years that I think might have set some records. I think Volvo is a bad one too.

Interestingly, I owned several 70's vintage New Yorkers starting in 1974 and I was still driving a '76 New Yorker until 1991. The '70's were bad years for Chrysler financially, and I'm sure the reliability of those New Yorkers wasn't rated very high. However, my feeling is mixed. I never had to do any work on the engine or transmission (leaky seals, of course, were ignored). So, everything that needed repair, I could do myself with limited mechanic skills. I'll admit to replacing the alternator, fuel pump, water pump and carb on almost every one of them I owned. I think two had to have the radiators overhauled. The idea was that with a family of more than two kids, the New Yorkers were a lot cheaper to buy than an SUV.

Then, in 1991 I got an Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser (just about the same size as Chevy Chase's Family Truckster). That was the best car I ever owned. Unfortunately, after a few years it needed a new starter and I wasn't comfortable tackling that. The guy I took it to, installed it with the wrong amount of spacers and the starter knocked some teeth off of the fly wheel. That eventually resulted in more and more teeth breaking and eventually it wouldn't start. I moved on, but have never had the equivalent of the Custom Cruiser. It's the only rear wheel drive car I ever drove that had such good traction, that it was very difficult to spin doughnuts in the snow.

Loren Swelk
12-16-2010, 11:45 AM
I apologize in advance for hijacking this thread, but here goes:

My son had a Volvo for a few years that I think might have set some records. I think Volvo is a bad one too.

Rule of thumb: Never own a car that is named after a woman's personal parts.

large
12-16-2010, 12:37 PM
280 SEL . . They're nice cars, really nice, but you can't buy anything for one anyplace but the dealership . . They're engineered so well no one makes any aftermarket stuff for 'em . . well. . Sparkplugs, Windshield Wiper Blades and Light Bulbs, but that's it . .

And in the case of the 280, it was spec'd with spark plugs that fell into the same range as a Fuel Dragster . . Autobahn plugs, for cruising at 100 mph . . On a cold, wet Colorado day, if it wasn't warmed up good before you drove it, the ****ed thing would load up and foul the plugs within two blocks of the house (or wherever you started from) . . I'd put hotter plugs in it, and then the next time it went to be serviced, they'd put the cold racing plugs in again . . And . . You couldn't tell a "Mercedes Technician" anything because all of them were direct cousins of Adolph . . .

And . . Anyone else one would trust to work on their German jewel was just as elitist and overbearing as those who worked on them at the dealership . . if not moreso . .

Well, I could go on, but I won't . .

As for Volvo . . Dunno, My Daughter and her Husband bought a new one last year (Her christmas Present) and picked it up at the factory, which was with some celebration, I guess . . Then went on a drive around Northern Europe on a "Shake Down Run" so to speak . . then sent it home to Colorado . . And, as far as I know, they've had no trouble at all with it . . But then, I'm under the impression that a Volvo is just a really, really high priced Ford . . or am I wrong?

Kinda like the Jag-u-ar, Hmmm?

Loren Swelk
12-17-2010, 10:19 AM
Well now we know, new car smell can get your felony charges dropped to misdemeanors with no jail time for hit and run offenses. (http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20101216/NEWS/101219846)

large
12-17-2010, 10:43 AM
Topic at hand . . In the end, the "New Car Smell" had nothing to do with it, other than the Judge commented that it was a "Cowardly defense" . .

A first offense, for a first time offender? He got pretty much what anyone else would have gotten, had they hired a first rate lawyer . .


Gannett's sentence also prohibits Erzinger from driving a car for one year, and he has the option of either completing 60 days of work release in county jail or doing 45 straight days of charitable work which would require he take a leave of absence from work. He is also required to make a charitable donation and pay court costs and fines.

Marc.N
12-17-2010, 05:51 PM
A friend owned a special limited edition low serial number Mercedes that was owned by Constantine the Great (or would have owned or something like that). He would baby it and use the best oils and spices and lotions available at prices were a straight across trade for their weight in gold.

Everyday the hour long ritual was performed when he came home. On with the coveralls, the factory maintenance manual and owners manual followed to the letter.

In my hazy recollection I do remember he lavished upon her a substance akin to an expensive skin lotion that had new car smell .

Then the fuel pump went out.

My friend was so betrayed. His car demanded a pump that was beyond any reasonable demand by a lover. My friend had no idea his car was so unfair and ungrateful after all the attention, affection, massages and visits to the beauty shop lavished upon it.

He anguished over the relationship as he was not a shallow nor fickle man (and of course Boulder is the land of relationship research and classes !! ), and finally decided the car never loved him so the relationship was doomed from the start.

He bought some used beater and last I saw of him they were happy and all was fine. ♪♫♫♪...If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life...♪♪♫♫

large
12-19-2010, 08:55 AM
His car demanded a pump that was beyond any reasonable demand by a lover.

Heh, heh . . The cost of a fuel pump in the average automobile today costs at least as much as a Las Vegas Hooker . . The low end is usually somewhere around $500 and the upper can be as much as $1800 . . 99% of the fuel pumps in todays automobiles (dating back to about 1988) are specific pressure set submersible modules, usually containing the Fuel level sensor, as well as other information seeking sensors, depending upon the year and complexity of the computer systems on board.

Not to mention the full tank of gasoline you usually have when the fuel pump shoots craps . . It's not just the cost of a full tank of Gas, but the labor to drain it, remove and replace the fuel tank, charge you for 5 gallons of gasoline to test and restart the car (where did the gas they drained out go, you wonder?) and then when you get it back, you have to go fill it up again. At $3 a gallon that, in itself is a dinger to the wallet.

The Electronic Fuel Pump in today's automobiles can go from "Neat" to "Nightmare" in one instant . . Don't ever run your fuel tank dry! While one time won't necessarily ruin it, it won't do it any good . . and a couple of times turns it to junk and you into a pedestrian . . Y'see, a submersible pump uses the gasoline that flows through it as a coolant . . and when your sensor lights up the warning light on your dash, chances are the fuel level is below the sides of the pump in the tank . . so the outside is open to the air around it and the only coolant left is what flows through it . . when that stops, that little pump will get pretty hot before you decide to quit trying to start a car that won't run and turn the key off . . . And heat is the enemy of all little electric motors . . Soon, you will find out how expensive not stopping for gasoline can get . .

So, replacement of a fuel pump can be beyond any reasonable demand, lover or not . . It's no longer an $18 part bolted on the side of the block . .

Loren Swelk
12-31-2010, 09:12 AM
Another sign the apocalypse is upon us. (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/12/30/national/main7197725.shtml)

Loren Swelk
01-27-2011, 09:10 AM
Marriott to go pornless (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0111/Another_step_toward_Romney_2012_Marriott_bans_porn .html)

Last time I stayed at the Marriott I asked the desk clerk,"I hope you have disabled porn on the TV in my room". She called me a "sick puppy", whatever that is.

Bob Nattering
01-28-2011, 09:18 AM
Marriott to go pornless (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0111/Another_step_toward_Romney_2012_Marriott_bans_porn .html)

Last time I stayed at the Marriott I asked the desk clerk,"I hope you have disabled porn on the TV in my room". She called me a "sick puppy", whatever that is.

I'm not weighing in on the accuracy of what she called you, just providing a definition of the slang term "sick puppy."

According to the Urban Dictionary: (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sick%20puppy)


sick puppy

(n) a mentally disturbed, insane, or attention-seaking person that does or says revolting, disgusting, or bizarre things.
OR
a person who says or does twisted or gross things (but is not necessarily insane)

Loren Swelk
01-28-2011, 09:28 AM
I'm not weighing in on the accuracy of what she called you, just providing a definition of the slang term "sick puppy."

WELL.....maybe I misunderstood and she said slick puppy.

Bob Nattering
01-28-2011, 04:15 PM
WELL.....maybe I misunderstood and she said slick puppy.

Very likely.

Loren Swelk
01-30-2011, 02:15 PM
At least it wasn't during 5th period Latin. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/29/AR2011012903854.html)

large
01-30-2011, 05:04 PM
At least it wasn't during 5th period Latin. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/29/AR2011012903854.html)

Y'know, 3 years old is too young to go to school . . Pre school, pre-pre school, whatever . . The Mom should still be being the mom, the basic teacher . .

Pre School is the year or less before Kindergarten . . Period!

Bob Nattering
01-30-2011, 05:45 PM
Y'know, 3 years old is too young to go to school . . Pre school, pre-pre school, whatever . . The Mom should still be being the mom, the basic teacher . .

Pre School is the year or less before Kindergarten . . Period!

I'm mostly of the same opinion, even though my grandkids all were enrolled at age 3, because the parents feel compelled by the norm.

While some kids take longer to potty train and it's not their fault, I still think an institution should be able to limit attendance/enrollment to those that don't have an excessive number of accidents.

Sandra
01-30-2011, 06:30 PM
In my case, my autistic child needed pre-school at that age, but I otherwise agree.

There is a big push for kids to be in pre-school at the age of 3 and up so that they won't be "behind" in traditional school. They are now teaching things in Kindergarten that I was taught at the end of first grade, and there are things that kids have to know to enter Kindergarten now that kids used to learn in 1st grade.

Today's double income families don't seem to have time to teach their kids the basics, another reason why pre-school is a must in this day and age.

I do agree, though, idealistically 3 years old should be "at home with Mommy" time - playing with other kids their age - except they're all in pre-school now.

Loren Swelk
02-02-2011, 09:51 AM
Back in 1994 on the Today Show, Katie Couric and Bryant Gumbel were stumped with the question: What is internet?" (http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/02/01/what-is-internet-web-surfers-discover-ruthlessly-mock-1994-today-show-clip-of-confused-couric-gumbel/?xid=rss-nation-yahoo)

Pretty funny.

large
02-02-2011, 10:02 AM
Just goes to show you how ignorant those who read the news to you really are . . "Anchor" is an abbreviation of "Dumber than an old iron ANCHOR" . .

Loren Swelk
02-03-2011, 09:31 AM
Charlie Harper in the news...again. (http://www.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/celebrity.news.gossip/02/02/sheen.911.call/index.html)

Well it could have been Lindsay Lohan....or her father.

Marc.N
02-03-2011, 09:58 AM
Maybe Charlie might need to get a used car. The new car smell could be the problem.

large
02-03-2011, 10:22 AM
It's called "Method Acting" . . Where you have to have "Lived" the part.

Charlie's just doing homework and it got the best of him . .

Loren Swelk
02-04-2011, 09:29 AM
Kind of, since last Thursday. (http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/02/03/internet.addresses.gone/index.html)

large
02-04-2011, 10:39 AM
Check it out . . What the Hell is an "Undecillion"?


The new pool, which has technically been ready since 1999, has so many IP addresses that most non-mathematicians probably don't even know the number exists -- 340 undecillion.

Loren Swelk
02-04-2011, 10:47 AM
Check it out . . What the Hell is an "Undecillion"?

I think it is a young Reptilian, or maybe a member of the Klingon family.

Marc.N
02-05-2011, 09:12 AM
Maybe the oposite of a Cotillion?

Loren Swelk
02-06-2011, 03:24 PM
What! You touched that and you still want to wrestle? (http://www.newsfirst5.com/news/raccoon-plays-opossum-gets-wrestling-team-booted-from-tourney/)

Gotta protect our little snowflakes.

Loren Swelk
02-11-2011, 08:07 AM
This is the government job I have been looking for, reviewing porn films on the public payroll. (http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/02/10/2060729/flagler-memorial-makes-cameo-in.html)

large
02-11-2011, 08:31 AM
This is the government job I have been looking for, reviewing porn films on the public payroll. (http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/02/10/2060729/flagler-memorial-makes-cameo-in.html)

While I read little about a "Porn Inspector" or "Reviewer" I did ascertain that the city fathers who are complaining that a Porn Movie was shot in their city park, "out in the open" etcetra, have a "Police" problem, not a "Porn" problem . . Generally speaking, having sex in a public park after dark will usually attract at least one cop, and, while I can't speak for the Maimi-Dade County Law enforcement people, in Pueblo, you'll draw a crowd, and some of that crowd will be wearing badges . . Although, based upon current traffic practices, you'll have one cop writing the ticket and 12 who came to watch . .

Loren Swelk
03-17-2011, 05:48 PM
Never too early to be thinking of Hahvahd (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/03/14/2011-03-14_manhattan_mom_sues_19kyr_preschool_for_damaging _4yearold_daughters_ivy_league_ch.html)

Utica Comminity College is still a definite possibility though.

Loren Swelk
03-18-2011, 03:19 PM
Woman slips off of toilet, sues McDonalds. (http://www.kdvr.com/news/wgntv-mcdonalds-toilet-lawsuit-mar16,0,2714957.story?track=rss)

Hmmm there is a joke in there somewhere.

large
03-18-2011, 03:48 PM
Hmmm, perhaps this is a fitting piece, dealing with the culture that we are . . Loren's link made me think of it . . From IBD:


Looters Missing In Action In Disaster-Sticken Japan
By LARRY ELDER
Posted 03/17/2011 06:15 PM ET

Japan's prime minister calls the 9.0 earthquake and the following tsunami the greatest crisis in Japan since World War II. Ten thousand people are feared dead. Millions are without power, and millions sleep outdoors in cold weather.

But we haven't seen looting. So I asked why, I asked on Facebook and Twitter, no video of looters in Japan? "Race is not an issue," Mike replied. "Third World countries like Haiti loot due to poverty. Japan is like America, an economic superpower. Plain and simple."

"Poverty equals crime" is the standard "plain and simple" explanation, especially to the left. The analysis contains holes big enough to drive a Hummer through.

In the "economic superpower" called America, we see widespread looting following natural disasters, as well as during power blackouts, "civil unrest" and basketball team victory celebrations.

If we attribute this to American poverty, what about Japanese poverty?

"Japan Tries to Face Up to Growing Poverty Problem," read the headline of a 2010 New York Times article. Here are excerpts:

"After years of economic stagnation and widening income disparities, this once proudly egalitarian nation is belatedly waking up to the fact that it has a large and growing number of poor people.

"The Labor Ministry's disclosure in October that almost one in six Japanese, or 20 million people, lived in poverty in 2007 stunned the nation and ignited a debate over possible remedies that has raged ever since.

"Many Japanese, who cling to the popular myth that their nation is uniformly middle class, were further shocked to see that Japan's poverty rate, at 15.7%, was close to the ... 17.1% in the United States, whose glaring social inequalities have long been viewed with scorn and pity here.

"Following an internationally recognized formula, the (Labor Ministry) set the poverty line at about $22,000 a year for a family of four, half of Japan's median household income. Researchers estimate that Japan's poverty rate has doubled since the nation's real estate and stock markets collapsed in the early 1990s, ushering in two decades of income stagnation and even decline."

If Japan's percentage of people living below the poverty line is about the same as ours, and if poverty causes crime as Mike suggests, why isn't the crime rate in Japan the same as ours?

San Francisco's Chinatown in the 1960s became one of the most impoverished areas in California. Public policy professors James Q. Wilson and Richard Hernstein wrote: "One neighborhood in San Francisco had the lowest income, the highest unemployment rate, the highest proportion of families with incomes under $4,000 per year, the least educational attainment, the highest tuberculosis rate and the highest proportion of substandard housing.

"That neighborhood was called Chinatown. Yet, in 1965, there were only five persons of Chinese ancestry committed to prison in the entire state of California."

Two low-income areas outside of Boston — South Boston and Roxbury — were featured several years ago in U.S. News & World Report. They had similar socioeconomic profiles: high levels of unemployment, the same percentage of children born to single-parent households and the same percentage of people living in public housing. But the violent crime rate in Roxbury, predominately black, was four times higher than that of South Boston, predominately white.

Culture and values explain why some countries and some communities experience crime, while others do not. This explains why many students from Asian countries outperform equally "disadvantaged" black and brown students from the same "underperforming" inner-city government schools.

Culture and values explain a 2011 article headlined, "New Zealand Police 'Sickened' at Looting in Quake-Hit City": "New Zealand police said ... they were 'sickened' at a spate of looting, e-mail scams and bogus appeals for charity in the wake of the deadly Christchurch earthquake.

"Lootings and burglaries, including one at the home of a woman feared dead in the disaster, have also been reported, while fraudulent e-mails soliciting charity donations were also doing the rounds."

The Japanese earthquake was over 8,000 times more powerful than the New Zealand quake earlier this year.

Culture and values explain the fear in Egypt and Libya of looting from museums that house precious historical and cultural artifacts.

Culture and values explain why in Los Angeles, a city with a 46% Hispanic population and a 10% Asian population, one sees no Latinos or Asians holding up "Will Work for Food" signs. When South Korea played for soccer's 2010 World Cup, the Los Angeles Korean community received permits to view games on big-screen monitors in the streets near Koreatown. The police said the streets were more trash-free after the games than before.

Culture and values are not set in stone. They can and do change for the better — especially when we accept responsibility and stop blaming bad behavior on poverty. Plain and simple.

I placed the Author's Photograph with the article just to keep from being called a "Whatever' . . he said it, I didn't!

Marc.N
03-21-2011, 01:09 PM
Love it.

People loot cuz they can.

Moral people don't loot cuz they can.

Loren Swelk
03-22-2011, 07:20 PM
Leave it to Hugo Chavez to answer a question I have had since I was a kid: What happened to the men from mars? (http://www.kdvr.com/news/sns-rt-odd-us-venezuela-chtre72l61d-20110322,0,5150829.story?track=rss)

large
03-24-2011, 06:29 AM
I thought all that was disclosed in "Men In Black" when Tommy Lee Jones was giving Will Smith a "Tour" of the "MIB Headquarters" . . .

Loren Swelk
03-24-2011, 09:20 AM
Who knew so many Iowa fans wore brown khakis? (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6251943&campaign=rss&source=NCFHeadlines)

Place Depends joke here:_______________________

Bob Nattering
03-24-2011, 10:05 AM
Who knew so many Iowa fans wore brown khakis? (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6251943&campaign=rss&source=NCFHeadlines)

Place Depends joke here:_______________________

I'm just curious, but the article says they were only 16 feet above the press box.

But what about


The lead pilot is giving up his right to fly military aircraft.

Seems like if he was flying a lead aircraft, he was lucky to even get it off the ground.

______________________

I apologize in advance, if I've already used my Pb humor somewhere in this Forum.

large
03-24-2011, 01:41 PM
Gotta ask . . How did ANYONE know that they were flying too low and too fast . .

If they really were that low, they were in most of the people's field of vision for about 4 seconds . . Hardly long enough to "measure" much, even if you had a device capable of it . . Unless the "Guy on the ground" (yeah, there's a "Guy on the Ground" for every "Flyover' the Air Force does) was really a good guesser . . or if he peed in his Khakis too!

Loren Swelk
05-22-2011, 01:10 PM
Our tax dollars at work. (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/122402579.html)

Someone had to stop this vicious gang, I guess the FBI spending millions to do it is the cost of protecting us.

large
05-22-2011, 05:40 PM
Severe overkill . . .

Marc.N
05-23-2011, 12:44 PM
Latest theory says Roswell UFO was Russian craft (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/23/roswell-ufo-russia-plane_n_865710.html)

ROSWELL, N.M. — The world famous Roswell "incident" was no UFO but rather a Russian spacecraft with "grotesque, child-size aviators" developed in human experiments by Nazi doctor and war criminal Josef Mengele, according to a theory floated by investigative journalist Annie Jacobsen...

...Jacobsen, a contributing editor the Los Angeles Times magazine, told NPR that said she knows people will be skeptical.

large
05-24-2011, 05:00 AM
You mean the City of Roswell is going to have to change their streetlights? Little Russian heads rather than the existing "Cone Head Aliens with the big black eyes?

Julian
05-24-2011, 05:47 AM
You mean the City of Roswell is going to have to change their streetlights? Little Russian heads rather than the existing "Cone Head Aliens with the big black eyes?

Maybe they could combine them: I think those furry Russian hats would look good on a cone-head alien.

Bob Nattering
05-24-2011, 09:24 AM
I think that's a terrible theory. What other industry does poor Roswell have?

Marc.N
05-24-2011, 12:11 PM
I think that's a terrible theory. What other industry does poor Roswell have?

I like it cuz it's more benign than armageddon scams.

Dirty Sox
05-24-2011, 04:09 PM
I may get spanked but "all I know is what I read in the news":
http://news.travel.aol.com/2011/05/24/kyle-pearce-united-airlines-passenger-single-handedly-joins-mi/?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl4%7Csec3_lnk2%7C214120

After reading the story, the author of the headline seems to have a little humor.

Marc.N
05-24-2011, 06:35 PM
He may want to apply for Pawlenty's staff.

Julian
05-24-2011, 06:49 PM
After the public mis-statements and crazy antics by GOP Prez hopefuls these past few weeks I think this Pearce guy should run for office. After all, if there's one thing the Republicans need right now it's a man who knows how to handle himself in public.

Dirty Sox
05-25-2011, 04:53 AM
Guess Mr. Pearce gives new meaning to the term "highjacker"..

Julian
05-25-2011, 05:13 AM
Guess Mr. Pearce gives new meaning to the term "highjacker"..Or High Five...

Loren Swelk
05-30-2011, 11:31 AM
A good retelling of Alfred Hitchcocks "The Monkey's Paw". (http://www.arabtimesonline.com/NewsDetails/tabid/96/smid/414/ArticleID/169732/reftab/149/t/Bangladesh-woman-takes--attacker-s--penis-to-police-/Default.aspx)

Julian
05-30-2011, 02:22 PM
So the loonies from Westboro Baptist Church decided to picket the memorial service in Joplin, MO. According to this web page, 300 bikers thought that was a bad idea. http://goo.gl/TxEra

Julian
05-30-2011, 08:16 PM
Should the Rapture guy be investigated for fraud? Some atheists think so. http://goo.gl/SXlA3

Loren Swelk
06-10-2011, 12:06 PM
Our tax dollars working hard for us. (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/feds-spent-36-million-research-studies-d)

Julian
06-12-2011, 05:21 PM
Not news, exactly, but ... http://goo.gl/c0qao

Loren Swelk
06-17-2011, 08:50 PM
Ever wondered why your ribeye tasted funny? (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/28275809/detail.html)

Sandra
06-17-2011, 10:13 PM
That is disgusting!

One step closer to soilent green

Loren Swelk
06-17-2011, 10:37 PM
+1 to Sandra for the obscure Solyent Green reference.

Sandra
06-17-2011, 10:57 PM
Every once in a while a good one comes out.

Loren Swelk
06-17-2011, 11:16 PM
Every once in a while a good one comes out.

and a +1 for the adianoeta.

Julian
06-18-2011, 07:13 AM
Wanna buy a festival? http://goo.gl/VaDAr

large
06-18-2011, 07:55 AM
Ever wondered why your ribeye tasted funny? (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/28275809/detail.html)

I guess that explains why dogs "Clean up after themselves" . . They're just enjoying that steak again . . .

Sandra
06-18-2011, 08:06 AM
Looks like Loren's post really got me going last night. (How many points do I get for that one?) rotfl

Seriously, though, that anyone would think of making food out of s#!t shows just how little self respect or dignity people really have. Disgusting is too nice of a word to describe it.

Bob Nattering
06-18-2011, 08:43 AM
Well, actually making food out of s#!t has been going on for millions of years. It's nature's way of recycling the organic material on the earth over and over. Animal manure and even green manure (from plants), only breaks down in the soil through the chemical changes created by micro-organisms. So almost everything that grows in the soil is to some extent growing on the excrement of organisms and can in fact be indirectly from the manure of other animals.

In the US, at least, it's illegal to use human excrement for fertilizer on agricultural land. But, that's to prevent the spread of human transmitted disease. If it's done in a lab, there's probably not much chance of that.

Just sayin'!

CountryFlowers
06-18-2011, 08:53 AM
Nature does it a lot differently than mankind, Bob!

But let me ask you the million dollar question. Would you eat that stuff? How many of you here would try it?

large
06-18-2011, 09:11 AM
Consider this . . How many of you know EXACTLY what you're eating, at any time? Especially when consuming "Processed Foods" . .

Bob Nattering
06-18-2011, 09:42 AM
Nature does it a lot differently than mankind, Bob!

But let me ask you the million dollar question. Would you eat that stuff? How many of you here would try it?



Well I am very particular about texture and taste. In that sense, I'm certain enough that the artificial product would not duplicate the texture and taste I'm used to very well. But the reason is not safety or the starting material, it's more about taste and not trusting artificial processes (as Large indicates).


Consider this . . How many of you know EXACTLY what you're eating, at any time? Especially when consuming "Processed Foods" . .

Loren Swelk
06-18-2011, 10:45 AM
Well I am very particular about texture and taste.

Says the guy who orders mashed potatoes in a Chinese restaurant.

Bob Nattering
06-18-2011, 04:56 PM
Says the guy who orders mashed potatoes in a Chinese restaurant.

I'm very particular about the texture of my mashed potatoes.

Julian
06-18-2011, 09:44 PM
Nature does it a lot differently than mankind, Bob!

But let me ask you the million dollar question. Would you eat that stuff? How many of you here would try it?


Here's the 2 million dollar (entirely facetious) question - how do you know you haven't already tried it?

Sandra
06-18-2011, 11:22 PM
****in my best high pitched junior high style voice that I learned from my daughters:***


EEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!

large
06-19-2011, 08:43 AM
Uhhhh, we recycle Urine, don't we?

Just think about where all that water in the bottle you just opened has been . . .

Julian
06-20-2011, 07:24 AM
From fecal food to pesticided produce: http://goo.gl/F1yiA

large
06-20-2011, 07:34 AM
Eeewwwwwww, a "Tree hugger's" Site . . Let's scare hell out of the Human Race!

Julian
06-20-2011, 08:19 PM
Some folks are building a clock in Texas that will measure time for 10,000 years. I guess now I'll know the actual date I pay off my Visa balance.

http://goo.gl/q56xO

Loren Swelk
06-23-2011, 08:32 AM
Trying not to be circumspect, could this have been foretold? (http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/Colorado_To_End_Medicaid_Coverage_Of_Circumcision_ 124420369.html)

Sandra
06-23-2011, 09:38 AM
I wonder if they'll make exceptions in cases where it is medically necessary?

Loren Swelk
06-23-2011, 10:01 AM
I wonder if they'll make exceptions in cases where it is medically necessary?
I think that is the whole point. It is not medically necessary, just a social custom.

Julian
06-23-2011, 07:26 PM
The following is taking place (of course) in San Francisco, but I wonder if something like it could happen in Colorado.

"A legal group dedicated to fighting anti-Semitism announced Wednesday that it has launched a lawsuit to challenge a proposed ban on circumcision of males under the age of 18.

The Anti-Defamation League joined with Jewish Community Relations Council of San Francisco, various doctors and Jewish and Muslim individuals to ask the Department of Elections to remove the circumcision proposal from the November ballot. The coalition argues that the City of San Francisco does not have the power to enact an anti-circumcision proposition if approved by voters."

http://goo.gl/5IKNR

Sandra
06-23-2011, 07:42 PM
I don't see how the law is anti-semetic because Christians in the US largely circumcise newborn males, too. I think the law was meant to be politically correct because of the outrage for circumcision that has started among some men who have been led to believe they were cheated because they were circumcised.

Medicaid programs don't typically pay for medical procedures that are deemed as "elective" or "cosmetic" (Which is why they won't pay for adult dental care or braces), and it's possible that Medicaid may have determined the procedure to be non-medically necessary for survival, thus "cosmetic" in nature. I can certainly understand it, although there are some times when the procedure may be medically necessary because in some boys the opening is so small they can't even urinate properly, which can lead to all kinds of bladder, ureter, and kidney problems because of infections.

I don't think Medicaid is saying, "You can't have this", I think they're saying, "We're not going to pay for it". Something to think about if a couple is on Medicaid and can't afford a circumcision - they might want to hold off on having any babies until they can afford the procedure.

Sandra
06-23-2011, 07:44 PM
I think that is the whole point. It is not medically necessary, just a social custom.Loren, there are times when it is medically necessary - see my most recent post before this one for details.

large
06-23-2011, 08:37 PM
If Medicaid can pay for elective Abortions and Tattoo removal, it can pay for circumcisions . .

Loren Swelk
06-24-2011, 06:34 AM
The sad life of Seymour Butts. (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/28341515/detail.html)

large
06-24-2011, 08:53 AM
That's mental care . . Re: CDOC . . .

Julian
06-24-2011, 11:53 AM
If Medicaid can pay for elective Abortions and Tattoo removal, it can pay for circumcisions . .
In Colorado, at least, it pays for neither. http://goo.gl/PX1MF

Loren Swelk
06-25-2011, 04:52 PM
Believe it or not there's an app for that. (http://dailycaller.com/2010/11/08/health-officials-working-on-std-test-app-would-enable-users-to-urinate-into-cell-phone/)

Sandra
06-25-2011, 10:12 PM
Oh, great. Someday we'll be able to pee on our cell phones.

I don't think I want to know what other apps might be coming available...

Julian
06-27-2011, 07:18 PM
MySpace is fixin' to lay off about half its staff. The WTF? MySpace still has employees.

Loren Swelk
07-04-2011, 12:01 PM
So there you go. I wonder what watching the Fiesta Day parade means? (http://beta.news.yahoo.com/fourth-july-parades-turn-kids-republicans-073000439.html)
Sincerely, Lorenzo Swelkisteven (http://beta.news.yahoo.com/fourth-july-parades-turn-kids-republicans-073000439.html)

Loren Swelk
07-06-2011, 07:35 AM
Ronald Reagan monument unveiled outside London's US embassy. New statue promptly takes 15-point lead in GOP presidential poll (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14009137)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14009137

Loren Swelk
07-07-2011, 07:16 AM
I don't think the two mystery women were drunk, they smelled of formaldehyde. (http://www.timesnews.net/article/9033574/police-nearly-naked-man-in-bluff-city-funeral-home-claims-he-wasn39t-alone-sex-was-planned)

Julian
07-08-2011, 05:58 AM
Dog on helium. http://goo.gl/PohqX

Loren Swelk
07-11-2011, 04:40 AM
A better editor may have helped (http://apple.copydesk.org/2011/07/06/you-need-a-dirty-mind-to-be-an-editor-in-this-business/)

Sandra
07-11-2011, 09:49 PM
Human Belly Button Home to Hundreds of Never-Before-Seen Species (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/07/05/human-belly-button-is-home-to-hundreds-never-before-seen-species/#ixzz1RraQavWT)

large
07-12-2011, 06:27 AM
Now that causes one to wonder, in retrospect, about all those other body orfices . . . and what one might have encountered in the past . .

Sandra
07-12-2011, 07:13 AM
And I thought they were always after donuts... (http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15062466/did-intense-craving-for-a-cheeseburger-lead-to-injury-wreck)

Watch the video associated with that story, the information they give towards the end of the video will make you wish we had a rolling eyes smiley. LOL!

Loren Swelk
07-27-2011, 08:20 PM
Crap! I could pull all of mine and still not get a hundred bucks. (http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/Tooth_Fairy_Cutting_Back_In_Economic_Times_1262788 53.html)

Can you sell kidneys?

Bob Nattering
07-28-2011, 04:52 AM
Crap! I could pull all of mine and still not get a hundred bucks. (http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/Tooth_Fairy_Cutting_Back_In_Economic_Times_1262788 53.html)

Can you sell kidneys?

It says the survey was done by Visa Inc. How would you like to find a Visa Inc. job offer under your pillow to conduct these tooth fairy surveys? ............................

Hey, Dave, I'll have to miss the staff meeting today. I've got another appointment with the tooth fairy.

Loren Swelk
08-02-2011, 12:20 PM
Vice President Biden charges Secret Service a rental fee for his protection detail. (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/joe-biden-collecting-rent-secret-194812366.html)

Gotta make your money while you can, the unemployment office is looming in about 18 months.

Loren Swelk
08-04-2011, 09:01 AM
Oh, oh (http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/mobile/08/03/black.hat.war.texting/index.html)
I guess I can call him instead of AAA if I lock my keys in my car.

Julian
08-15-2011, 06:50 PM
A nice person from Littleton wants to name a mountain after the late John Denver:

"Misinformation over a request to name the eastern peak of Mount Sopris after John Denver is spreading rapidly, partly because of an extremely vocal minority opposition, the initiative's organizer said Sunday.

J.P. McDaniel of Littleton, who is spearheading an international petition to ask the U.S. Board of Geographical Names to consider the proposal, said ignorance about Denver and what he stood for is the driving force behind the movement to kill the effort. Some opponents have even prematurely claimed victory, which is odd given that the board has yet to receive the proposal. McDaniel said she plans to mail the petition and related paperwork to the federal board within the next two weeks."

It's probably just me, but isn't it a little indelicate to name a 12,000 foot peak after a man who died falling from a height?

large
08-15-2011, 07:03 PM
It was simpler than that . . he didn't check his fuel levels . . But, that shouldn't enter into it . . However, he turned into a greedy "private property owner" later, having people arrested for even walking down the road that fronted his property in Vail . . or Aspen, wherever . .

Soooo, he ended up being just another entertainer who bought property, wrote songs and then went to California to die . .

And in my estimation, Sweet Surrender as his best tune . . But that's just me . . .

Loren Swelk
11-13-2011, 07:54 AM
His parents must be so proud. (http://www.chieftain.com/news/crime_beat/man-arrested-in-sexual-assault-of-dog/article_8e48d680-0dc3-11e1-8a07-001cc4c002e0.html)

large
11-13-2011, 10:00 AM
Anybody get pictures?

Wouldn't those be a landmark in the Milosavich family photo album . . ?

Loren Swelk
12-06-2011, 11:14 AM
Say it ain't so Joe. (http://www.kdvr.com/news/ktla-handm-models-controversy,0,6990814.story?track=rss)

Bob Nattering
12-06-2011, 02:20 PM
Say it ain't so Joe. (http://www.kdvr.com/news/ktla-handm-models-controversy,0,6990814.story?track=rss)


H&M says it used the fake body to draw attention to the garments, not the models.

But consumer watchdogs are slamming the practice, saying it creates unrealistic physical ideals.

Well,....... then to create a "not unrealistic" physical ideal here's the Sonia Rykiel Pour H&M 2009 Womenswear Full Show. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCTn8yxy1sg&feature=player_embedded#!) from Paris.

Definitely! I'm with the consumer watchdogs on this issue. But, much like the computer generated bodies, the live models all look alike.

Sandra
12-06-2011, 02:33 PM
People need to realize - models are just models. They can put those swimsuits on anything they want - they're there to sell the swimsuits, not body styles. As for the allegation of setting "unrealistic standards" - well, that's a laugh! How is that any different from the manipulated photos we already see - that is, airbrushed models with all the "flaws" taken out, and the makup technically adjusted - teeth whitened, eyes and pupils inlarged, breasts enhanced, legs lengthened. By the time that picture hits the publisher, it's no longer a picture of the subject. Enhanced imaging is just part of the industry, whether the clothes are on people, dolls, or even rocks - it's the clothes that are for sale, not the model.

Loren Swelk
12-17-2011, 02:42 PM
Twinkle, twinkle little star, like a WHAT in the sky?! (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4004627/Toddlers-Twinkle-sign-ban.html)

Sandra
12-17-2011, 03:00 PM
Oh how ridiculous.

The sign for "vagina" is to make an "L" in sign with both hands, then bring the tips of the thumbs together and the tips of the forefingers together - upside down. So it looks like an inverted triangle. The only fingers touching each other are thumbs to thumbs and forefingers to foregfingers, the rest of the fingers are folded inward towards the palm. It looks something like an elongated inverted triangle. In the UK it's not inverted.

The "twinkle" sign - same as the "O" sign for some University's football team - involves making a sign language "C" with both hands then bringing the finger tips from the one hand together with the finger tips of the other hand to form an obvious "O".

There is no way to mistake the one sign for the other unless you're either ignorant or a pervert.

If the kids are being taught the vagina sign instead of the twinkle gesture, then they're being taught wrong. Rather than banning the hand signs, why not try teaching them the correct gesture instead??

The article says the sign is offensive to deaf people - if it's done correctly, no it isn't. Most deaf people using sign language know the difference. What they find offensive is people speaking for them without consulting them about it.

Bob Nattering
12-21-2011, 05:41 AM
I'm just wondering if the guy's cell phone was saying: "You have arrived at your destination."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZH1zqHb8fw

Loren Swelk
12-31-2011, 05:59 PM
New Years resolution: Eat only what is grown locally (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017113840_eatingsquirrels29m.html).

Bob Nattering
01-01-2012, 07:11 AM
New Years resolution: Eat only what is grown locally (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017113840_eatingsquirrels29m.html).

Saw a couple squirrel hunters in my neighborhood.


1560

Loren Swelk
01-17-2012, 02:23 PM
Man dies in Fort Collins movie theater bathroom stall and body is not discovered for five days. (http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20120117/NEWS01/201170327/Man-dead-days-before-being-found?odyssey=mod|mostview)

I think Cinemark needs to revise their restroom cleaning practices.

"Hey you in there, give it a courtesy flush, you're stinkin' up the place"

large
01-17-2012, 06:15 PM
Yeah, and after about 3 days a body gets real "Aromatic" one might say. Far ranker than any BM you're ever gonna whiff . .

You'd think someone could have figured that out . .

Loren Swelk
01-18-2012, 10:38 AM
██████ ██████████ ██ ████ ██ ████████████ ██ ███ ███ This comment has been found in violation of H.R. 3261, S.O.P.A and has been removed.

Loren Swelk
03-02-2012, 01:02 PM
I have no idea how to title this article without being banned for life. (http://blogs.tcpalm.com/off_the_beat_will_greenlee_blog/2012/02/a-driver-with-a-sexual.html)

Bob Nattering
03-02-2012, 02:38 PM
I guess I'll skip the Martin County Florida police car auction this year.

large
03-02-2012, 04:36 PM
Trust me . . That's nowhere the worst thing that can happen in the back seat of a Police Car . .

Sandra
03-02-2012, 05:58 PM
I might have to move this topic to the user lounge....lol...!

Marc.N
03-03-2012, 04:03 PM
I'd give it a thumbs up plug for prurient entertainment value. It's insertion into the mainstream family rated forums is debatable.

As an aside, as a former drug alcohol counselor, we used to hear stories about beer bottles and how a speed bump made them a fascinating topic similiar to Lorens discovery.

Dirty Sox
03-26-2012, 09:14 AM
Recently received: After reading the headlines about the US soldier who shot up Afghanistan civilians, I couldn't help noticing an irony. There is
all this clamor to try this guy quickly and execute him, never mind
his having suffered a traumatic brain injury.

Yet this Major Hasan, who shot up Fort Hood while screaming Allah
akbar, still hasn’t stood trial, and they are still debating whether
he was insane, even with the clear evidence regarding his motive:
slay as many infidels as possible. So we have a guy in a war zone
who cracks, and he must be executed immediately.

But this Muslim psychiatrist who was stateside in a nice safe
office all day murders 13, wounds 29 of our own guys, and they try to
argue the poor lad suffered post-traumatic stress syndrome, from
listening to real soldiers who had actual battle experience. Two and
a half years later, they still haven’t tried the murderous b*st*rd.

Oh yeah, remember what Obama's first remark was right after the Major shot the soldiers at Fort Hood? "Lets don't jump to conclusions".
Tony Axton
"American By Birth, Christian By Choice"

large
03-26-2012, 10:48 AM
So, how about the kid who shot Traylor Martin in Florida. the Mobs and the Media have tried and convicted him, before he has been even arrested, if he ever is.

Now I don't know, and probably neither does anyone else except Martin and Zimmerman, what went down that night, but Zimmerman is the one witness with the story.

If the Media and the mobs don't like the Florida Law, then it's up to them to get it changed instead of demanding the lynching of a person who, at this point, acted within the law.

Personally, based upon the same information the Media and the mobs have, I don't readily condone Zimmerman's actions, nor do I particularily like the law that he used to justify the shooting, but that's opinion, not established fact . .

To clarify my stand on Florida's "Stand your ground Law", I'll say I'm for Concealed Carry as a citizen who will choose to defend himself (and his) from deadly force. However I'll leave the Police Work to the Police. If I can walk away from any situation that I'm not directly threatened by . . See ya! I don't have a Star or a big red S on my chest so don't expect me to come in shooting like Hopalong Cassidy . . Yer on yer own!

MTDismuke
03-27-2012, 08:14 AM
So, how about the kid who shot Traylor Martin in Florida. the Mobs and the Media have tried and convicted him, before he has been even arrested, if he ever is.

Now I don't know, and probably neither does anyone else except Martin and Zimmerman, what went down that night, but Zimmerman is the one witness with the story.

If the Media and the mobs don't like the Florida Law, then it's up to them to get it changed instead of demanding the lynching of a person who, at this point, acted within the law.

Personally, based upon the same information the Media and the mobs have, I don't readily condone Zimmerman's actions, nor do I particularily like the law that he used to justify the shooting, but that's opinion, not established fact . .

To clarify my stand on Florida's "Stand your ground Law", I'll say I'm for Concealed Carry as a citizen who will choose to defend himself (and his) from deadly force. However I'll leave the Police Work to the Police. If I can walk away from any situation that I'm not directly threatened by . . See ya! I don't have a Star or a big red S on my chest so don't expect me to come in shooting like Hopalong Cassidy . . Yer on yer own!

This incident has bothered me since the day it was aired. I didn't side with either because I felt there was not enough information out to paint a good picture of what happened yet everyone was screaming blood. The news media basically dumped gasoline on this story and got the nation in an uproar over it before they had the facts. I actually always have been leaning on the side of zimmerman. I just can't see why somebody who's been monitoring the complex for a year would suddenly shoot somebody in the middle of the court yard for all to see.

I hate the fact they are pushing that it is a crime that he followed this kid or even questioned him. That is NOT a crime nor does it in anyway shape or form make him out to be an aggressor. If that's the case, every **** cop in America is guilty and could be shot under Florida law. They are really blowing this entire situation out of proportion. I'll wait till all the evidence is out. Based off the 'FACTS' so far including the phone calls, I'm more on Zim's side.

large
03-27-2012, 09:47 AM
To add . . This morning's (and last evening's) disclosures about the incident and the fact that Travor (for whatever reason) was beating hell out of Zimmerman prior to the shot(s) being fired, by eyewitnesses, now has both the Racemongers and certain representatives of the media questioning the validity of an "Eyewitness" . .

But, bottom line, whether you like the law or not, I think that Zimmerman will be exonerated because what he did (apparently) falls inside the letter of the law . .

And again, I can only say, If there are those who don't like the outcome, get the law changed and treat the next shooting differently . .

Bob Nattering
03-27-2012, 11:07 AM
Gotta repeat a David Mamet quotation from the play, "Race":


There are no ‘facts of the case.’ There are two opposing fictions, which the opposing teams each seek to impose upon the jury.

Loren Swelk
03-27-2012, 11:18 AM
I see that the kid's mother is trying to trademark his name. Trayvon may have been a decent kid, but his mother is a slimeball.

large
03-27-2012, 11:32 AM
"Race" wouldn't be any part of the quotient were it not for those who profit from the hate spread by claiming things to be "Racial" . .

The "Racemongers" . .

Bob Nattering
03-28-2012, 04:43 PM
Ladies and Gents...................


1611

webmaster
03-28-2012, 07:07 PM
Loren - she is doing this to try to protect his name while she tries to fight for justice for her son.

There are other groups out there trying to cash in on this incident - and if she doesn't register his name as a trademark she risks someone else doing it.

Even the Obama campaign has been using this thing to try to win votes for Obama - which I think is a stinking, rotten thing to do. He's out there saying that if he had a son he'd look like Trayvon, and he's using this incident to further his own racist agenda pitting blacks against whites.

Personally I don't see where this is a racist issue - I listened to the 911 tapes several times (the unedited versions) and I did not hear the racial slur that everyone is talking about. I did hear him say "these a-holes always get away!" though.

So I disagree with your remark that it is his mother who is the slimeball - I think the real slimeballs are the ones using this as an excuse to create more racial division and the groups that are trying to cash in on Trayvon's death while trying to further an agenda that continues to pit blacks and whites against each other.

large
03-28-2012, 07:43 PM
I think there's been far too much opinionating and too little REPORTING about it . . And the Racemongers are having a heyday . . What was said and done in the United State's House of Representatives today was reprehensible . .

large
03-28-2012, 07:53 PM
And. . His mother is a slime ball for letting herself and the death of her son become a part of an agenda that a bunch of sorry@ssed people who make a living off racism and victimism will use . .

She can't be that stupid . . can she?

Or is she?

Sandra
03-29-2012, 07:22 AM
Large, come on - it's not a matter of "let" - people took the ball and ran with it, she has no control over that.

She just wants justice for her son, so yes, she's on the news giving interviews. I think that somehow she thinks that if she grants interviews then the media attention will force authorities to arrest Zimmerman - which they very well should have done but haven't. In viewing the police repoert, the charges against him SHOULD they pursue them would be manslaughter and second degree homicide. I think it should be first degree homicide since he got out of his vehicle and chased the kid who reacted in self defense after the guy accosted him. The man had no business giving chase - and neighborhood watch even emphasises this. He was not acting in the capacity of neighborhood watch rules and guidelines by doing so - so the way I see it, the whole thing is his fault. If he thought the boy was suspicious then calling the police was the right thing to do, but giving chase was not - so he had SOME intention somewhere. Had he not given chase then the boy would not have felt the need to defend himself nor would he be dead.

(There are allegations out there that the boy was involved in a physical altercation with Zimmerman - and under FL law he would have been justified in physically defending himself because he was afraid since a complete stranger was pursuing him.)

So this whole thing - I don't see where race should even be an issue here, but Zimmerman needs to be brought to justice. Thing is, whenever a black person is killed by a non-black - especially if it's a white - then blacks make a big issue of it. When it's the other way around, we don't see whites making such a big issue of it - when the tow truck driver was dragged by a black woman in Colorado Springs, who stood up and made it a race issue? But if it had been the other way around I think that it would have easily become a race issue, and I think that's because some people enjoy creating division.

I seriously don't think the boy was targeted because of his race, although I will say that a black kid in a hoodie may appear intimidating because of all the gang activity out there. It seems that, at least in our neck of the woods - all the armed robberies involving someone in a hoodie - all of those guys committing those were black males wearing a hoodie.

At least, those were the ones in the news - if there were any others who weren't black I'm not aware of them. And other people in other places may notice something similar, and when people see enough of that then people will become intimidated by the site of a black person in a hoodie.

It's just like this 9/11 thing - Muslims wonder why they have a bad reputation - and it's because of the terrorists forcing that religion on people and there don't appear to be very many "peaceful" Muslims taking a stand against that.

Certainly this is no reason to give chase and gun down an innocent kid - but people ask why then don't want to hear the answer. I'm white and I'll be honest - if my sons, who are also white, were living with me - I'd discourage them from wearing hoodies too just because of their association with gang activity and the resulting intimidation of the people.

But that's just me...

Sandra
03-29-2012, 07:23 AM
By the way - that remark by the webmaster was me - I was logged into the webmaster account when I made it. I should have signed my name or something.

large
03-29-2012, 09:37 AM
Sandra, again, you haven't (apparently) listened to, and read all available accounts . . Not to mention, all of George Zimmerman's statement about the incident, some of which is available, some not . .

You're forming an opinion based on partial information . . A Jury couldn't convict him on the information that's out there right now, nor should you . . Apparently, also, few people seem to understand the Florida "Stand Your Ground" Law. As I said, I'm not at all in favor of it because of it's "vaugeness" . . But it is the law of the land in Florida, and the DA in that county is walking a real tightrope on charging/not charging Zimmerman with anything . .

As for the mother "trademarking" the name "Trayvon" . . "Trademarking" anything is an attempt to legally market it without fear of anyone else using it (for a profit) . . There's absolutely no other feasable reason for that . . She's nearly as bad as the people who are using her for their "Racemongering" . . Because she's either dumber than a box of rocks or a greedy Beatch . . willing to use the death of her own son to gain money and fame . . of which the latter can be transformed into the former . .

And, about the "hoodie' . . It's hard to tell a "wannabe" from the real thing in the dark . .

Loren Swelk
03-29-2012, 11:23 AM
This is my opinion, nothing more: When and if Zimmerman comes out of hiding, whether it be to jail or on the street, he will be dead in 10 days.

Marc.N
03-30-2012, 04:32 AM
Zimmerman shoulda listened to the 911 dispatcher. Oh well, too late now.

large
03-30-2012, 05:57 AM
Zimmerman shoulda listened to the 911 dispatcher. Oh well, too late now.

Based upon the chronology of the 911 tapes presented (so far) he apparently did. He went back to his vehicle where he was acosted (or attacked, depends upon who's narrating) by, according to one witness, Trayvon . .

But . . all of the information still remains incomplete to the public. Way too much guessing going on to convict anybody of anything . .

Loren Swelk
03-30-2012, 08:39 AM
But . . all of the information still remains incomplete to the public. Way too much guessing going on to convict anybody of anything . .

However Spike Lee, Al Sharpton, Oprah Winfrey, Geraldo Rivera, his Mama, his Daddy, the "new" Black Panthers with their $10,000 reward for finding him and most of the media have already convicted him which is far more lethal than any court of law.

large
03-30-2012, 09:13 AM
Yeah, well, last Sunday night the little fat blond News gal on KOAATV ran a story about this, using the words "Murder", "Gunned Down" and an implication that Zimmerman was guilty of "First Degree Murder by Racism" . . I wrote Greg Boyce a slightly warm missive about it monday Morning . . Here 'tis:


Greg;

Last night's 10 o'clock new presentation on the "Trayvon Martin Shooting" was terribly slanted and reported. To listen to your story was to listen to a local Reporter advocating mob violence and street "Justice".
The words "Murder", "Gunned down", "National Outrage" , "Avenge Trayvon's death", "Justice" were used several times by your reporter, especially the phrase "Gunned Down" . . The shooter was referred to several times both by your reporter(s) as a "Killer", an advertisement (literally) for a $10,000 bounty was placed upon Zimmerman's head in the video, as was the threat to riot if Zimmerman wasn't arrested. In more than one instance the words "Race" was used as an epithet or threat . .

I'm not a racist, but this report just smacks of racism, reverse racism perhaps, but racism nevertheless . . None of the protesters you saw in any of the videos that I've seen have whites protesting, so this is a "Black movement or event" . . Which would be fine if any of them (or apparently, your reporter) understood either the law in general or the laws of the State it occurred in, Florida. As it would do your staff well to learn also. According to the US Constitution, you are not guilty of a Crime until you have been arrested, charged, tried and found guilty. That's "Justice"! Anything short of that is called "Vigilante Justice" and is illegal. But I'm sure you know all of this. I hope. When you (or any person) says we must try and convict this person of a crime, you are advocating an injustice. His guilt is your opinion, not the results of a trial held within the laws of the State the crime(if it was one) occurred.

Now, neither you or I know exactly what happened between Trayvon Martin and Zimmerman that night. There's Zimmerman's story, there's his conversation on the telephone. Then there's a lot of presumption on the part of the Black Communities and the press in this country. But, based upon current Florida Law, it's very possible that Zimmerman will walk free simply because there's a law that allows what he said happened. He was Bloodied and he had called the police prior to(and during) the incident. The thing about killing a person is that there is only one story about what happened and why. Zimmerman has the story, Trayvon and his family doesn't.

If there is something within the Laws of Florida that you and your reporting staff feel is wrong, you can't convict a person who acted within them, you have to change the law . . and then convict the next person that acts outside them. I'm in favor of modifying the law . .

And pandering to any one group is absolutely wrong. If it were a white boy gunned down by a black boy, in the same state, under the same assumed circumstances, would there be this kind of news coverage or people in the streets? Very doubtful. Because that's not news, is it?

Please, report the news as news, not opinion by the Staff. That's Jarman's job, to be the Advocate at 5 and 10. If you choose to opinionate, do so, but label it as such. There was little fact in the report I'm commenting upon and lots of sensationalism, as well as opinion driven wording.

Large


And His Answer:
The use of murdered was absolutely wrong. Gunned down was a little strong,
especially used twice. I will take the appropriate action. Thanks for
pointing it out.

Greg Boyce | Content Manager
GBoyce@koaa.com

Problem is, and I'm sure it's not just KOAATV with the problem, the "appropriate action" was after the fact . . .

Sandra
03-30-2012, 01:33 PM
From Large:


Sandra, again, you haven't (apparently) listened to, and read all available
accounts . . Not to mention, all of George Zimmerman's statement about the
incident, some of which is available, some not . .


Actually - I've heard both sides of the issue - heard the unedited 911 calls - several of them, actually - saw a few witness accounts.

Here's my conclusion based on those things:

1. Zimmerman was traveling in his vehicle when he saw Martin walking down the street. (Some accounts indicate that it was dark and rainy.)

2. For some reason, Zimmerman felt that Martin was suspicious, so he called 911 from his cell phone.

3. At some point, Zimmerman exited his vehicle and chased Martin.

4. A 911 call from a witness comes in and in the background you can hear a male voice screaming for help - the voice sounds as though it could be Zimmerman's, but not having heard Martin's voice to compare it to, I can't say for sure.

5. A shot is heard followed by an immediate loud moan, and the screaming for help ceases.

6. Another witness indicates that at that point they observed A male standing over another male, who was face down and not moving. This witness indicates that the live male made no attempt to help the motionless male on the ground - did not shake him, attempt to turn him over, or attempt to render any aid whatsoever. This witness also indicated that after a minute the live male yelled for help.

Another witness interview states that she was on the phone with Martin and he expressed fear because he was being followed. She also indicated that as he was being followed he then put his hood up, but wasn't going to run. She then hears Martin ask, "Why are you following me" and a male voice demands to know what Martin is doing there. There is some kind of noise and the call is disconnected.

My conclusion:
Zimmerman had no business chasing Martin. He identified himself as a neighborhood watch captain - but I know Neighborhood Watch - they do not teach volunteers to give chase. In fact, they teach that volunteers who see suspicious activity observe from a safe distance and call the police and let the police handle it.

This is why I say Zimmerman was the aggressor. He did the right thing by calling the police to report a suspicious character, but he did not do the right thing by pursuing him and demanding to know why he was there.

Next - placing myself in Martin's shoes - if some guy I didn't know was following me in a vehicle I'd stop and stare at him too - with a very dirty look on my face. That person would KNOW that I know they're following me and the look should serve to tell them that they'd better have a good reason for it. In my mind, I would find it suspicious that someone was following me. After giving the icy stare, I'd do what I need to do to keep myself safe - that is, retreat. Get the heck out of there.

If in the process of my getting the heck out of there the party following me decides to chase me, then I'd be thinking there's a problem here and now it's time to seriously consider defending myself. As Martin did, I'd demand to know why that person is following me. If they demand to know what I'm doing there, that's none of their business - so my response would be to ask them who they are and why they want to know. If they lay a hand on me - they may think they're trying to detain me, but I'm thinking they've just started something and you can rest assured I'm going to fight back, and if that means pounding their head into the pavement repeatedly, then that's exactly what's going to happen.

Now there are no accounts that can prove Zimmerman put his hands on Martin first - he's not there to tell his side of it - but I think we can rest assured that Zimmerman won't admit to having done such a thing, either.

But we can deduce from the evidence that Zimmerman did pursue Martin and even stated so to the 911 call taker, who then said to him, "We don't need you to do that". Zimmerman then continued to pursue Martin anyway.

A responding officer notes that Zimmerman appeard to be wet and was bleading from his head and nose - but the officer doesn't say whether it was the front of his head or the back. The officer also fails to mention the rainy weather.

Both officers that I read reports from stated that the male subject was laying face down on the ground and was not moving and was unresponsive. ONLY AFTER they questioned and detained Zimmerman and had him cuffed and in the back of a police car did they "notice" that there was a "black male subject" laying face down on the ground and that they then attempted to render aid. I question this - how did they not notice him before hand?

They were advised of the shooting on the way to the scene - they removed the gun from Zimmerman - who stated that he shot someone - yet they didn't "notice" the victim until after they put Zimmerman in the car? And I'm going strictly by their own reports on this.

My opinion is that Martin had a right to act in self defense upon being pursued like that by Zimmerman. Maybe Zimmerman thought he would be a hero or something - but he really proved himself to be more of a zero. The man he shot was an unarmed 17 year old boy who was walking home to watch a basketball game. On his person was a bag of skittles, a bottle of iced tea, and his cell phone.

The boy had no criminal history, his "record" consists of being expelled from school for 10 days for having an "empty marijuana baggie" :huh: . AN EMPTY MARIJUANA BAGGIE?! If it was EMPTY how did they know it was for MARIJUANA? The kid wasn't known to hang out with hoodlums, was never in trouble a day in his life except for having an empty baggie - and now he's dead at the hands of an allegedly self appointed neighborhood watch captain who had called the police on people almost 50 times in the last year. Zimmerman, by the way, does have a past history with the police - for domestic violence.

So all news reports aside - this is my take. And by the way, I did NOT hear the racial slur the news is reporting - he said something about "these a-holes always get away" - indicating to me that he has probably chased other people in the past, too.

I get the impression that somehow the guy thinks he's a cop - I question his mental health.

PS - if more information comes out I'll be happy to hear it - but my opinion is based solely on the things I've mentioned, and not the content of any news stories.

large
03-30-2012, 02:52 PM
but my opinion is based solely on the things I've mentioned, and not the content of any news stories.

First, and again, this is Your OPINION, based upon the facts you have read or in a couple of cases, "Assumed" . . And 95% of the details provided the public was given out by one news Media source or another . . The Sanford police have yet to provide detail(s) of the incident other than a general description of what took place, and why they haven't arrested George Zimmerman . .

As for Zimmerman's possible aggressive following of the subject (until told to desist by the S.O. on the Phone), no big deal. If I see some dude that's strange to the neighborhood in the alley or loitering on the street around my home, I generally ask him (them) their business and if they have none, tell them to leave the area . . and if they persist, I call the cops.

Then if one (or more) doesn't like it, the survivors can wish the cops had gotten there faster . . Because, no matter what's said, if you attack me, I'll defend myself, where ever I am . . And we don't have a law like Florida has . .

Sandra
03-30-2012, 03:25 PM
Also, large, there is no evidence showing that Zimmerman had attempted to return to his vehicle. In fact, you can hear him running and continuing to pursue Martin after the call taker told him, in so many words, not to be chasing Martin. The location of the incident in relation to where the vehicle was located is also not an indicator that he was trying to get into his vehicle, as his vehicle was not in that close proximity to the incident.

I'm thinking that Zimmerman is claiming that he was attempting to get back in his vehicle as a matter of CYA - but the evidence I've seen and heard (which isn't the same as the police, mind you) does not seem to back him up on that. So I don't believe that he really was trying to get back into his car when this happened.

Again, the information I saw and heard were true copies of actual police reports and the 911 calls. They were not censored or edited. There were two pieces that I saw that were not police reports - one was the interview of the 16 year old girl as it appeard on the news and one was a video that the 13 year old witness made then posted to YouTube talking about his feelings about being a black boy in this day and age. He does mention what he saw, but I did not address that in giving my opinion although I did address what the girl said.

I failed to mention that the police report indicates that Zimmerman's arrest would be for 2nd degree homicide and manslaughter - for needlessly pursuing and killing a suspicous party.

He should have waited for the police to respond and do their job. Neighborhood watch people are not police and do not have the "freedom" to question people or pursue them. As for questioning people and telling them to leave - people have a right to walk down the street. If you see someone breaking into someone's house, then call the police, but it's not generally our place to go around questioning people. And in this case, Martin was neither standing around or loitering - he was walking down the street being followed by Zimmerman. At one point he stopped and looked at Zimmerman - probably wondering why the man was following him - but as I stated, he was walking down the street minding his own business, talking on his cell phone with his g/f - so why was he suspicious? Because he was black and wearing a hoodie? Not everyone in a hoodie is a hoodlum.

Chances are, if you question someone, they're not going to tell you they're there to commit a crime, anyway, so what's the use of asking in the first place?

large
03-30-2012, 06:12 PM
Chances are, if you question someone, they're not going to tell you they're there to commit a crime, anyway, so what's the use of asking in the first place?

It gives them a chance to know that they're "noticed" and that if they have no business there, then they have no business there . . And it gives me reason to call the cops . . After that, it would depend upon what sort of threat they might become to me . .

Sandra
03-30-2012, 10:07 PM
Oh, so what they're noticed. Walking down the street is not illegal, and should not be considered "suspicious". And even then, unless you're a cop or owner of the property the suspcious character is on, you shouldn't confront them anyway. Just call the police and let them handle it.

large
03-31-2012, 06:14 AM
Look, 99% of the time, if people are where they have no business, or are up to no good, the last thing they want is "Notice' and if they're aware they're being noticed . . They go else where . .

However, and I suppose it's up to the person and their abilities to deal with it, if someones hanging around the property and is out of place, I'll ask him what his business is and if he has none, recommend that he go elsewhere . .

Where I live, if someone's hanging around in the alley or on the street, I'm guessing that he's "Taking inventory" . . I've been cleaned out by burgulars once (Years ago) and it's been attempted once more recently . . So, perhaps I'm a tad more sensitive about this than most . .

And, in Pueblo, the Police response sometimes leaves a lot to be desired. I generally get their attention by telling them that if they don't deal with it now, I will . . and that will usually get a cop there in a couple minutes . . Heh, heh, they're a little sensitive about things like that . .

But the "average" citizen? whatever. I'm not so much a "Neighborhood Watcher' as I am a selfish old man who doesn't want to share his stuff with a bunch of deadbeats . .

And getting back to Trayvon, here's a visual comment . . http://news.investors.com/photopopup.aspx?id=606330

Kinda puts a period on the whole deal . .

Sandra
03-31-2012, 07:39 AM
Look, 99% of the time, if people are where they have no business, or are up
to no good, the last thing they want is "Notice' and if they're aware they're
being noticed . . They go else where . .


Again, the boy was simply walking down the street while talking to his g/f on his cell phone. The one who had no business there was the man following him and demanding to know why he was there in the first place.

If you see someone hanging around an alley taking inventory, just call the police and let them do their job the the taxpayers are paying them to do.

I realize police response time can be slow in such cases, but just standing there is doing no harm. Take a picture if you have to - there's no crime in standing around. If a crime happens later because the police didn't respond, then that's on them. But asking someone what they're doing there isn't going to deter someone from committing a crime that they're hellbent on committing - they'll just come back later when there's no one looking, that's all.

Plus, you don't know that someone is standing there "taking inventory" - it could be that they're waiting for someone, or maybe they're lost. It could be that they were walking and got tired and wanted to take a break - I've done that before myself.

Now, if they're standing in your yard, on your porch, or in your back yard, yes - by all means - ask them what's up - you're well within your right to do so if you feel safe in doing so.

But there's no need to chase a kid who's just walking down the street, as Zimmerman did.

large
03-31-2012, 02:16 PM
But there's no need to chase a kid who's just walking down the street, as Zimmerman did.

but you don't know that he "Chased' him down the street . . There is no evidence of "Chasing" or even "Pursuit" . . Just that he followed him to the point where he was told to "Break it off' . . Otherwise, how do you explain Trayvon being near the SUV when the cops showed up?

As for relying on the cops to show when they're needed . . They don't. And often, there's dumbassed questions involved.

Like a call to quieten down a party next door after midnight. "There's a woman screaming like she's being assaulted"

Dispatch: "What's happening to her and what's going on there?"

My answer: "Dunno, but if I have to go find out, I won't need you, will I?"

Instant policemen . . !

Sandra
03-31-2012, 05:06 PM
I DO know he chased him down the street. You can hear him doing it on the 911 tape - for one - he was all out of breath. Next, he also stated as much while on the phone with the 911 call taker. You can actually hear him running and you can tell he's getting winded from it, too - so there is plenty of evidence including his own statements concerning that. He's not denying that he chased the guy - he knows he can't do that because he already opened his mouth and told on himself. So his next big story is that he changed his mind and was getting back into his car and the kid attacked him. There's no evidence to support that, but even if there was - FL law does not have "duty to retreat" in their law, so there is speculation that if the kid felt like he was in danger he still could have legally "attacked" him since the guy was already pursuing him and making him feel unsafe.

Also - from what I've seen in the police reports - it doesn't appear to me that Trayvon was anywhere near the SUV. Now, I haven't seen all of the police reports, I only saw two write-ups by two different cops - neither of those had any diagrams or anything, which there should have been, but those may not have been made available so as to not poison the guy's right to a fair trial if he is arrested.

large
03-31-2012, 05:26 PM
Well, you, as have most of the media, convicted the guy, no matter where the evidence leads . .

The guy ought to be able to find a real impartial jury if he's arrested and charged . . .

Which takes us back to square one . . The Constitutional order of law . . which 99% of you have cast aside . . "Let's just convict the guilty Mother-----r" and be done with it . .

Like Loren said, based upon your opinion(s) the guy won't last 10 days on the street or in prison . .

That's because some of you people are still weighing the (partial) Evidence!

Sandra
03-31-2012, 07:23 PM
And you're not weighing partial evidence, Large?

I'll be honest, I haven't paid a whole lot of attention to the media - in fact, when I first heard about this I, too, was thinking along the lines that Zimmerman was probably in the right.

Then I took a look at the evidence - and you know my background as a paralegal, private investigator, and skip tracer - and you should know based on those things alone that I know how how investigations are conducted and I know how things are presented in court and what kinds of things the court looks at.

The things I saw changed my mind real quick - and the thing that really did it was his exiting his vehicle and chasing the guy down. He had no business doing that, and that is where things went down hill. Had he remained in his vehicle then an innocent boy would be alive today.

As for the racial aspect of this - I don't see where Zimmerman was being racist in his verbage - whether his suspicion of a black boy in a hood is racially motivated remains to be seen. I'm thinking he just saw a kid in a hoodie and that was it - but I could be wrong on that part.

But I do wonder whether there was any racial prejudice on the part of the cops who came to the scene - that's the only thing that makes sense to me as to why they didn't "notice" the dead boy on the ground until AFTER they detained and cuffed Zimmerman and had him in the back of a cruiser and were asking him questions. All that time passed without them "noticing" or rendering aid - and one question I think about is had they "noticed" sooner could they have saved the boy's life? Did they not "notice" him any sooner because he was black? Or maybe they saw the hoodie and figured, as did Zimmerman, that he was just some hoodlum so no big deal. They seem to have waited for an ambulance to show up before beginning to render aid, from the writing in the report.

But I may be wrong on my wondering whether the cops' not noticing the deceased could have been a racial thing. But given that they took a gun away from someone, and that someone stated he'd shot someone, then it seems to me that they should have "noticed" the deceased a little sooner.

I don't think that these sentiments are anything you'll hear about in the news - but there they are, in the police report. Plain as day. I also found out that the police department in question has been under fire before for mishandling investigations - so I guess this just seems to go along with their pattern.

Now, unlike you - I'm not saying the guy is guilty or not - but my opinion based on the evidence I've seen and being able to put two and two together and the laws of the State of Florida - I don't see him as innocent simply because he exited the car and chased someone who was simply walking down the street and talking on a cell phone. He had no business whatsoever doing that. I don't care what color the victim was - Zimmerman is not a police officer and he had no business chasing someone. As I stated before, if he felt the kid was suspicious, then he should have called the police and left it at that.

By exiting the vehicle he endangered that innocent boy and himself - he put himself into a position where someone else felt the need to defend themselves - which would account for whether Trayvon pounded him, and under FL law, he would have been justified in so doing based on Zimmerman's behavior. So whether Zimmerman really had been trying to get back into his vehicle under FL law is of no avail - he made the first move, he was the aggressor.

If you place yourself in Trayvon's shoes, I think you'll see that. You're a 17 year old kid walking home from Loaf & Jug with your Iced Tea and Skittles - talking on your phone to your g/f. Some guy in his car is following you and he's talking on his phone while staring at you and following you. How would you respond to that? Then the stranger exits his car - what would you think? Would you be afraid? Would you run? Most kids would. So then as you're running the guy chases you - you ask him why he's following you, he angrily demands to know what you're doing there. You tell him to back off and he makes another move - what are you going to do? Zimmerman was clearly being aggressive, and the kid clearly had a legitimate reason to feel afraid. Even if the guy was returning to his car, Trayvon had no idea of what the man's intentions were at this point. Under FL law, that's enough for him to defend himself with deadly force, yet he was unarmed, so chances are, he may very well have pounded Zimmerman - but given that Zimmerman was chasing him, I can't help but wonder whether Zimmerman hit him or anything first - maybe so he could shoot the guy then try to claim self defense later.

But - the deal is - Zimmerman being the aggressor started the whole thing when he exited his vehicle in pursuit of the kid. And I really think that's the one key thing that a jury will look at, because the kid was minding his own business - Zimmerman wasn't.

I think Zimmerman is probably paranoid.

MTDismuke
03-31-2012, 07:58 PM
Following somebody is not illegal. Not sure why you keep pressing that it is. Chasing somebody down is not what he did, he followed and phoned the police. he then states the guy turns and heads towards him.

If the boy felt threatened why did he not call the police? If Zim had in his mind to track down and kill then he would not have bothered calling the police in the first place. He would have done just that.

The question that makes or breaks this case is who initiated first contact and by what means. Zim can ask any question he wants till he's blue in the face and tongue falls out, it's not against the law. Nor is it if the boy told him to **** off that it was none of his business. Neither of those are breaking the law.

I'm not saying Zim is not guilty, I'm stating right here and now, that the key evidence as to who was the first aggressor is still not known. Sadly as the story is the boy was in the wrong place at the wrong time being watched by a freak paper badge cop and something transpired that turned a 'follow' into an attack resulting in his death.

Sandra
03-31-2012, 08:48 PM
MT - where did I say it was illegal to follow someone? I'm not pressing that it is illegal to follow someone, but there's a difference between following someone and chasing them.

It's one thing to see someone that you think is suspicious and keep an eye on them as you call the police. But it's another to actually get out of your car and start chasing them - especially if they were just walking down the street minding their own business.

There is no indication that Zimmerman was acting in the capacity of a neibhborhood watch volunteer - in fact, since this incident Neighborhood Watch has released all kinds of statements reminding volunteers that what Zimmerman did was against the rules and guidelines of Neighborhood Watch. Plus, although he claims he's a Neighborhood Watch captain, that has not been verified.

Chasing a suspect who has hurt someone with the intent to hold them while the police get there is not an illegal act, but chasing someone who has not committed a crime then killing them when they defend themselves certainly may be.

You sit there saying that what Zimmerman did wasn't against the law - but you seem to forget that citizens have every right to walk down the street without being accosted or questioned by strangers, so there's a fine line there. If he was doing something suspicious and Zimmerman happened to be walking down the street too and said something - that's one thing. But for the guy to get out of his car and chase the kid - that is wrong. And it shouldn't take a written law to dictate whether a behavior is unethical or illegal.

Zimmerman's actions may very well be considered along the lines of stalking. Again, he had no business exiting his vehicle and chasing the kid. The kid wasn't doing anything wrong - what's so suspicious about his walking down the street?

The key evidence as to who the aggressor is IS known. It wasn't Trayvon Martin who made the first move - Zimmerman exited his vehicle and chased Martin - and the 911 call taker told him, basically, to stop chasing him - but Zimmerman continued to chase the boy anyway.

Zimmerman is not a cop - he does not have the authority to pursue people like that. He had no reason to get out of his car and chase the boy - that's where he became the aggressor.

Why don't you answer the questions I posed to large - how do you think you would have reacted if you were in the boy's shoes?

MTDismuke
03-31-2012, 09:06 PM
Your filling in the blanks and plugging chasing in the mix. To be chased one must give chase. That would imply the kid was running from him. So that would indicate something transpired. His job was to watch the neighborhood. He followed him. I won't give in to chase till it's been proved that he was actually chasing him down in order to stop/detain/question him.

This is my take. He follows a 6'3 athletic built (football player) male unknown to the neighborhood which has been victimized for months. The 6'3 athlete notices him and tells his gf hey this weird person is following me. The freaky follower lurks behind him and the athlete says f**k this and turns and confronts him. The freaky dude asks him questions that offends him, so he lands a good one right in his nose for confronting him which spirals off into a bigger fight leading to his death.

So I can just as easy plug in events which I have no clue about and make a very good solid case in the defense of Zim. Instead, I'll wait till more evidence presents itself.

Sandra
03-31-2012, 09:37 PM
The only thing that transpired was that he was walking down the street, MT - and it wasn't his job to watch the neighborhood like that. Neighborhood Watch volunteers are trained to observe and call the police if they see suspicious activity. Volunteers are trained to not pursue and not attempt to make contact with a suspicious person. They are also not allowed to carry firearms while making rounds, even if they have a permit. If they break these rules then they are ousted from the Neighborhood Watch program.

As far as proof - how is it that the 911 tape where he states that he's chasing the guy and you can hear him running isn't enough to establish that he was chasing the guy? Why he was chasing him makes no difference - the fact is that he was chasing the guy and he did not have the right to do that. He was told by the 911 call taker to stop it but you can still hear him chasing the guy after that - cursing that "these a$$holes always get away".

Given YOUR scenereo - under FL law, the kid was within his rights to do that considering that he was being followed. This did not take place in Colorado. The laws in FL are far different. Here in CO, though, the shooter would probably have already been arrested.

And if you really insist that I have no clue as to what I'm talking about, scroll back a few pages to where I stated exactly what evidence I was using to come to the conclusion that I have.

MTDismuke
03-31-2012, 10:13 PM
I read it Sandra. I have not seen, read, or heard anything as of yet that would prove him guilty or not guilty of man slaughter.

I'm already displeased with this case with all the racial agenda and gun laws that are being dragged into this. I personally could care less about ethics and morals of other people. The Law is all that matters when it comes to our rights. The law states what is an aggressive act and what is not. To me, following a strange 6'3 male *not using the kid term here because he did not know he was a 17 year old kid* he was a strange man in a gated community that was not from there. Whether he skipped, jump roped, rollypollied, followed, or chased him in my mind is NOT a crime. Asking him a question is NOT a crime. Is it ethical or moral? Who cares! The law is the law.

Until I know how that mans nose got broke and what lead to it, I will not commit him to murder. No way, no how.

MTDismuke
03-31-2012, 10:41 PM
I will add this. The case must be investigated further. I have a feeling they will charge him no matter what because of the attention even if the evidence points to that he's not. Either way, he's screwed because people already have convicted him just like that Casey Anthony chick. What bothers me more is they are blowing this into a race and gun law thing which it isn't. Profiling is a fact of life. Deal with it. Police are trained to profile, all people profile whether they believe in it or not. That's being human.

large
04-01-2012, 08:39 AM
Profiling is a fact of life. Deal with it. Police are trained to profile, all people profile whether they believe in it or not. That's being human.

Exactly . . Profiling doesn't necessarily have a d@mned thing to do with Race. If you don't belong in a particular place, then someone will notice, generally. And if you're wandering around a "Gated Community" YOU'RE OUT OF PLACE . . If you're hanging around a residential area of any kind, with no observible purpose, again, YOU'RE OUT OF PLACE . .

Lessee . . Give me a reason why a stranger(s) would hang around (or "Loiter") a residential Area. 1) Because they might know someone there 2) They're dealing drugs 3) They're casing the neighborhhood for potential burgulary sites 4) they're looking for potential mugging victims 5) They're looking for a Slurpee outlet . . .

I'm not gonna bet on either #1 or #5 . . I'll take doors #2 thru #4 and odds are, that's what they are there for . . That's "Profiling" . . Add to that, regardless of race (again), if they appear to be age 16 through about 30, double the odds on #2 thru #4 . . . It ain't senior citizens, teen age girls, or Jehova's Witnesses that are kicking in doors and invading homes, dealing drugs on the corners, or mugging people on the streets . . So "Profiling" makes it easier to ascertain who might be considering #2 thru #4 and stop it before it begins . .

Unfortunately, (and most of the time) Cops aren't there to ask "What are you doing here?" so someone else must, or at least follow and observe. And that does involve some risk. Personally, I transfer 90% of that risk to the person I'm asking or observing . . .

Let me say one more thing. I'm not some nosey old b@stard who picks on kids hanging around the neighborhood. I only pay attention after someone has gotten my attention . . If you're just walking up the street or down the alley, I may notice you, I may speak, but if you're going about your way, I couldn't care less . . But if you're hanging in place you don't belong for any period of time, I'll probably notice. Then you may have to deal with me or the cops, depending on who shows up first . . and what you do after I make my presence known . .

Marc.N
04-01-2012, 11:16 AM
...Then you may have to deal with me or the cops, depending on who shows up first . . and what you do after I make my presence known ...

Personally, I'd smile at you and go back to taking pictures of interesting twigs, cool little rocks and pathetic looking dead bugs.

Sandra
04-01-2012, 01:20 PM
Zimmerman did not have the right to chase the kid. He may have had a "right" to follow him while reporting him to the police, but he did NOT have the right to get out of his vehicle and confront him - esp after he was instructed by 911 not to.

Under FL law the kid would have had a right to defend himself from some guy chasing him. Chasing is an act of aggression, and anyone being chased like that can reasonably be considered to be in fear for their life, Mr. "the law is the law". Legal experts are contending that FL's law doesn't cover him since he pursued the guy - FL does not protect him from prosecution because he gave chase - under FL law, he started it. So under FL law that qualifies for 2nd degree murder AND manslaughter - as was noted on the police report.

Asking a question in and of itself may not be a crime, but chasing someone down like that very well qualifies as criminal given the nature of the pursuit and the end result. That something isn't "illegal" doesn't mean everyone can go around chasing each other - there's such a thing as common sense, even in the law, and there's such a thing as common law. Plus you'd have to look at case law to see how the courts have further interpreted the law in question - it may be that someone else was already sent up the river for chasing and killing someone - in which case that would be in the legal record and the court's ruling on that would set a precedence for a case such as this.

So there are many factors to be considered here - the man needs to be brought to justice and let a jury decide.

Black or white, Trayvon could have been anyone's son. What if he had been yours?

Sandra
04-01-2012, 01:29 PM
By the way, Trayvon did belong there - he was staying with his father and step mother who lived there. He was less than 100 feet away from home when he was shot.

MTDismuke
04-01-2012, 01:59 PM
Zimmerman did not have the right to chase the kid. He may have had a "right" to follow him while reporting him to the police, but he did NOT have the right to get out of his vehicle and confront him - esp after he was instructed by 911 not to.

Zimmerman's attorney has stated that he did not pursue the male, rather he returned to his vehicle when the male followed him back to his car, confronted him, then attacked him when he began to use his phone. That's the only eye-witness account so far. Let the legal system work and more information come out. Zim was not chasing him. In addition they are now saying his GF was not on the phone at the time. A lot of information being leaked is wrong. Based off Zim's account I've heard it matches the results more clearly. :)

Sandra
04-01-2012, 04:04 PM
How can you contend he wasn't chasing the kid when on top of hearing him do so on the 911 tape he stated more than once that he had? Once to the 911 call taker, and repeatedly to the police.

Yet you tell me he wasn't chasing him because his defense attorney made a public statement stating that he hadn't been chasing the kid? I'll tell you what, the prosecution will tear that apart on the witness stand - Zimmerman had better find a better attorney.

large
04-01-2012, 05:09 PM
One, there's no "Chase" in the phone calls . .

Two, Quoting MT:
Let the legal system work and more information come out.

At the risk of being rude, my good friend,(Sandra) You're no better than Jackson, Sharpton and NBC . . .

Sandra
04-01-2012, 08:54 PM
Yes there is a "chase" in the phone calls. Have you heard his 911 call? I have - the unedited version. You can hear him running and the 911 call taker asks him if he's chasing him and he says yes.

http://youtu.be/o9A-gp8mrdw

ABC news claims to have obtained HD video showing that Zimmerman has no blood on his nose or back of his head - and his nose in that video doesn't look broken to me.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897#.T3SL6mEgd3U (http://abcnews.go.com/WN/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897#.T3SL6mEgd3U)

The latest news about the 911 call where you can hear a voice crying for help - that voice is being said by forensic experts to not be that of Zimmerman.

http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_20304405/2-forensic-experts-say-its-not-george-zimmerman?source=rss

large
04-02-2012, 09:11 AM
Nothing like a trial by the media and it's Profiteers . . .



Here's something to think about.

55 years ago, when a black man shot a white man, the black man was convicted in the town square by a mob and Lynched . .

Today, a white man shoots a black man and the white guy gets tried, convicted and lynched in the town square . . Only, not by the town, but by the Country . .

Is this what 55 years of "Progress" brings?

And . . . What of the Latino in LA who was nearly beaten to death by 10 (THAT"S TEN) Blacks while making racist insults and remarks? Or, the Black man who, mercilessly killed two British students last year and stated at his sentencing that "He'd do it again because he hates "Crackers" . . ?

Are you, the Jury, ready to lynch those criminals too?

Don't think so because neither You(Sandra) or the Media has hardly mentioned either of them . . (and there were Video's of both incidents)

Sandra
04-02-2012, 02:12 PM
You don't see me lynching anyone, large. All you see is me saying why I feel that Zimmerman was in the wrong.

You also see me saying he should be brought to justice and let a jury decide whether he is guilty or innocent. You don't see me saying he should be hanged, put behind bars, or anything else. And you certainly don't see me bringing race into it.

I don't care what color a person is, if they're in the wrong they're in the wrong and let Justice prevail. If they are given a second chance then I hope they make good use of it - although most criminals don't, statistically.

Remember the black woman who dragged the white tow truck driver? Had that been a white man dragging a black one, can you imagine how that would have played out in the press? So I see the things that you are saying, Large - and I'm not denying how the race card is played in so many instances.

But for this particular case I just don't see the racism that people are claiming exists. I did not hear the racial slurs that the media is reporting, nor did I find any reason to believe that Zimmerman was being racist when he saw Martin walking down the street - I think he saw a hoodie and thought "hoodlum" and his over active imagination kicked in.

At the same time, I can see how people think race may have played a role - after all it's true that statistics show that non-blacks feel intimidated by blacks. I don't know why that is - there are just as many non-black hoodlums out there as there are black ones - so it doesn't seem fair to me. But maybe it's along the same lines that smaller people are intimidated by bigger ones - notice how throughout this story and even some of the postings references were made to the height, build, and weight of both of these guys - as if that was supposed to mean something? The kid was 6ft 4 and 150 pounds. That means he was tall and skinny. Yet people see "6 ft 4in" and think he was some big, huge intimidating guy. And Zimmerman is only 5' 9" and weighs 200 pounds - so he's fat, by medical standards. Why was the tall skinny guy more intimidating, then? And why should it matter how tall or short someone is? Height and weight aren't equal to strength and ability, but for some reason people seem to think they are.

For example, I'm small framed delicate looking 5'8" and weigh 120 pounds. But I can beat my ex husband's 6'11" 300 pound brother to a pulp (if I catch him off guard - LOL!). So if I ever got in a fight with him and won, what would you guys be thinking? That the wimpy old fart should have had an advantage over me 1. because of his size and 2. because he's male?

So is it fair to big people to be intimidated by them because of their size? We're doing the same thing with people of other skin tones - and that's really pretty durned rude, I think.

large
04-02-2012, 04:04 PM
I'm not intimidated by Black people either . . I have them for neighbors, two famlies. I, and they as well, and the "Latino Americans" who live in the neighborhood aren't intimidated by color, it's the actions (and, as often as not, their dress) that cause us all to pay attention . . Thieves and muggers are totally color blind, they don't really have any compassion or dislike for any of their victims.

The people who robbed our house 30 years ago were Bikers, plain old White Biker trash, and they sold everything they stole but one gun for drug money . . And the gun turned up, it sent two of them to Canon City and I got the gun back, no worse for the wear . . Just didn't get all the rest of the stuff back . .

And I don't "Fight" with anybody . . I'm too ****ed old to do something that stoopid . . But I do cheat.

And, I'll say it again, if it's your opinion that George Zimmerman is Guilty, keep it to your self. You've become just one more chattering noise that serves no purpose but to stir the pot . . Let the City of Sanford and the State of Florida solve their citizen's problems . .

Marc.N
04-02-2012, 04:22 PM
The race thing is a waste of time.

ALL relatively normal people of ALL races want the same things.

large
04-02-2012, 04:36 PM
Actually, in the Trayvor Martin incident, the FBI is now investigating it as a "Race" crime . . a "Violation of Trayvor's Civil Rights" . . .

Bi Bro is right there, lurking. The States no longer have rights . . .

Sandra
04-02-2012, 07:27 PM
And, I'll say it again, if it's your opinion that George Zimmerman is Guilty,
keep it to your self. You've become just one more chattering noise that serves no purpose but to stir the pot . .


It is my opinion that Zimmerman was in the wrong. What he's guilty of remains to be seen. It is my opinion that he pulled the trigger and killed Trayvon Martin. Whether that is manslaughter, 2nd degree murder, or anything else also remains to be seen.

As for my keeping my opinion to myself - surely you jest.

I could very easily point out that your opinion is also your own - and you seem to be of the opinion that Zimmerman is innocent, that he did no wrong. Should you be told to keep your opinion to yourself because it serves no purpose other than to stir the pot?

This is a forum, Large - for discussion. I don't need to remind you of that - what discussion would there be if we all agreed on everything?

Stirring the pot once in a while is a good thing. It keeps old farts like you from going stale and getting moldy... ;)

large
04-02-2012, 08:14 PM
No, I'm not of the opinion that Zimmerman is innocent. I don't know that, but, in reviewing your "tape' there seems to be more than one tape (or version, several edited differently). In reference to the "Chase" which isn't noted anywhere but by the racebaiters, you have just told me, in so many words, and so many posts that the pursuit in Sanford Florida isn't OK and that the "Chaser" can be assaulted should he pursue. Just because I follow you down a public street doesn't give you carte blanche to assault me.

You keep forgetting one hard fact. There is a witness who saw the assault, and called in a 911 call, who recorded it also. Why isn't the same attention being paid to that witness instead of coming up with fantasy evidence that he (to use the fat Blonde's description on KOAATV) "Gunned Trayvon down" or to quote the dumbassed lady representative in the pink hat (Racist Beatch) "Gunned him down like a rabid Dog"

Why let the evidence go where it will?

And, what exactly do you know about Florida's "Stand Your Ground" Law? If you carefully read it in it's entirety, while I don't particularily agree with it, basically, unless there's another witness out there that can contradict the one they have now, George will get a walk . .

The law is kinda vague and it gives you a pretty large door to defend yourself with deadly force when attacked, not really defining what you must do before (or have done) the attack . . Basically, the same question you are asked when you apply the Colorado "Make My Day" law; "Did you fear for your life?" An affirmative answer and a lifeless body inside your house gets you a "Get out of Jail" card . . Again, George will get a walk . . because? 90% of the evidence against him is fantasy and mob mentality.

Of course, not so much from the FBI, who now is investigating this as a "Hate Crime", which it isn't . . But it's certainly a home run for Obama and his race baiters . . He's rabble rousing his base, getting them out to vote . . at the expense of a dumbassed kid and an overzealous Neighborhood watchman . . And your help . . .

smt
04-03-2012, 04:03 AM
On the subject of the killing of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman and the SYG law I would like to express a couple opinions and facts.
In my opinion, Zimmerman broke no state statute in Florida and will not ever be convicted of a crime under Florida law.
The statute that relates to the SYG law never mentions the words attack, it is however is specific in justifying the killing another person as a preventative or defensive action as long as the one executing another person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary.
To consider either Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman or George Zimmerman attacked Trayvon Martin is irrelevant.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html


776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27.
776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—

large
04-03-2012, 05:30 AM
Thank You, smt . . I stand my ground . . .

smt
04-03-2012, 10:51 AM
thanks, I am sure you are right where you need to be.

large
04-03-2012, 11:23 AM
And welcome to the forum . .

Sandra
04-03-2012, 08:23 PM
Here's what the authors of Florida's Stand Your Ground law have to say about that:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57401619-504083/author-of-stand-your-ground-law-george-zimmerman-should-probably-be-arrested-for-killing-trayvon-martin/

smt
04-03-2012, 09:39 PM
Here's what the authors of Florida's Stand Your Ground law have to say about that:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57401619-504083/author-of-stand-your-ground-law-george-zimmerman-should-probably-be-arrested-for-killing-trayvon-martin/
Large, take care of my light work....

Sandra
04-03-2012, 10:33 PM
uh huh... just what I thought.

Carry on - I've repeated myself enough and I'm not changing my opinion.

smt
04-04-2012, 12:51 AM
uh huh... just what I thought.

Carry on - I've repeated myself enough and I'm not changing my opinion.
Sandra,
You claim that you thought and you are not repeating your opinion.
What an accomplishment.
"WTF in the news" is fun.

Sandra
04-04-2012, 06:36 AM
smt, if you'd like me to rehash my opinion and why, feel free to re-read that entire portion of this thread as many times as you like.

Meanwhile, being able to identify when something is getting old and repetitive is often the true accomplishment.

Welcome to the forums, by the way. :)

large
04-04-2012, 07:20 AM
Here's what the authors of Florida's Stand Your Ground law have to say about that:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57401619-504083/author-of-stand-your-ground-law-george-zimmerman-should-probably-be-arrested-for-killing-trayvon-martin/

Lessee, CBS is an objective, centrist news source, and so interviewing former legislators who weren't enthralled by the law when it was written and passed is certainly objective and convincing . .

But . . Would any of it stand up in court? No, it's all heresay based on flawed and edited evidence . .

Personally, I don't give a Rat's @ss whether They arrest, charge and try Zimmerman or not. And I'm pretty much of the idea that if they do, they don't have enough hard evidence to convict him of anything but perhaps failing to heed (if he really did) the deputy's order to "Break it off" . .

Point is, George Zimmerman couldn't get a fair trial in Cairo, Egypt, let alone in the whole state of Florida. Why? Because you couldn't find a qualified Juror and that's because the "Water has been poisoned" by a media led lynch mob . .

Now you can argue and quibble about this all you want, but what I'm saying is hard fact. Sandra, what you're saying is Opinion. And we all know the difference . .

I'll go another inch on this. Whatever the outcome, Loren made a prediction back aways, and the mob lynching will occur . . Zimmerman is a dead man no matter what a jury of his peers decide, simply because of the mob mentality of the media and those who got swept up in it . .

Sandra, I'm sure George would thank you and the thousands who helped execute him . .

large
04-04-2012, 10:57 AM
Allow me to add . . What is going to happen in the streets if they don't arrest George Zimmerman or worse, try him and find him innocent?

Are you going to be able to accept the firestorm that will probably erupt in many cities around the country?

And assume some of the blame?

Convicting someone of a crime that's, perhaps, sensitive to certain groups, based upon nothing more than media facts, sound bites and biased opinion is dangerous and irresponsible, because of the possible backlash and civil disruption that's become a standard in this country . .

Sandra
04-04-2012, 11:07 AM
Who's executing George? If he's arrested, brought to justice and convicted of the most he could be convicted of, it would not qualify for the death penalty in the state of Florida.

What are you calling flawed and edited evidence? Are you claiming that the 911 tapes are all edited? So someone took a 911 tape and altererd it to make it sound like Zimmerman was huffing and puffing out of breath as he chased Trayvon Martin?

Are you saying that the HD surveillance tape showing an unharmed Zimmerman are somehow edited, too? I guess to take out all the blood, huh?

Is this all some kind of conspiracy theory against poor Zimmerman?

Say, aren't you one of the guys who says they can't stand sheeple?

Marc.N
04-04-2012, 11:24 AM
what I'm saying is hard fact. Sandra, what you're saying is Opinion.

Actually what you're sayng is opinion also. You might wanna come down off Mount Olympus, take off your crown and rejoin the human race.....or maybe not.

large
04-04-2012, 12:24 PM
This is my opinion, nothing more: When and if Zimmerman comes out of hiding, whether it be to jail or on the street, he will be dead in 10 days.

and . .


Loren, again; However Spike Lee, Al Sharpton, Oprah Winfrey, Geraldo Rivera, his Mama, his Daddy, the "new" Black Panthers with their $10,000 reward for finding him and most of the media have already convicted him which is far more lethal than any court of law.


and . .


Sandra; Who's executing George? If he's arrested, brought to justice and convicted of the most he could be convicted of, it would not qualify for the death penalty in the state of Florida.

What are you calling flawed and edited evidence? Are you claiming that the 911 tapes are all edited? So someone took a 911 tape and altererd it to make it sound like Zimmerman was huffing and puffing out of breath as he chased Trayvon Martin?

Are you saying that the HD surveillance tape showing an unharmed Zimmerman are somehow edited, too? I guess to take out all the blood, huh?

Who's Executing George? The answer is directly above you. Some D*ckhead will go out and try to collect that bounty . . You know it, I know it and if you don't know it, you probably don't belong in this conversation . . Thus, the "Death Sentence" . .

On the Evidence . . I'm not "Claiming" they were Edited, They are admitting it! Both ABC and NBC admitted, theis morning, that they are apologizing for "Editing" their broadcast versions of the 911 tapes . . What they put in or took out hasn't been disclosed, but this was exposed as early as Monday Morning by 3 different sources.

As for the Video tape of Zimmerman's head injuries, they have been shown. The tape plainly shows that Zimmerman was harmed, there's a cut on the back of his head and his nose is swelled up . .

Point being, to both you and Marc . . You don't know what the story or facts actually are, nor do I . . So why convict someone by mob opinion and innuendo? You have the same sources that I have and I D@mned sure haven't an opinion of his guilt. I said at the outset, I don't necessarily agree with the law in place in Florida. But that's Florida and it's citizen's business, pretty much the same as the whole D@mned incident. It's not your or my place to run out and buy a rope, but you seem to have done just that . .

I don't see any of you getting all excited about the 12 killings, including an 8 year old girl in Chicago last week . . Y'know why?

It was "Black on Black" . . Uh, is that just something to be expected? I guess that's OK . .

Direct to Marc: Presumption of Guilt is a Constitutional issue. And based upon that, I'm not opinionating, I'm saying "Lynch mob Mentality" is outside the law and no more acceptable in this instance than at any other time . . If you have a problem with that, you need to become friends with your Constitutional Law Professor, Barack Obama. You have something in common. No respect for the Constitution and the ability to opinionate when you know little or nothing of the circumstances . .

Marc.N
04-04-2012, 12:55 PM
I believe there is profiteering spin and fraud all over the place on this Zimmerman thing.

MSNBC even apologized for their staff performing a racist editing of Zimmerman's intitial 911 call. (Not suprising considering MSNBC had to perform a major retraction of a Rachel Madcow massive screw-up a few months ago.)

BUT OMG!!! ADRENALINE TIME! IT WAS REPORTED THAT:

There was a witness but then it turned out they weren't a witness but just a 911 caller who refused to go near a window but then someone saw two people laying down but not together and ...

There was no or little injury on Zimmerman and now computer enhanced video (paid for by a news network?) shows up to make him look messed up.

Police report indicates slight injury to Zimmerman and another story indicates police says he's bloody.

Zimmernman got out of his truck to follow or he never got out of his truck or he got out then got back in or he went to go back in and was jumped from behind or he got out and followed the man or the man pulled him outta the truck or...

...blah blah I could go on.

IMNSHO the media has always opportunistically reacted to profit making opportunities. A tweak here, a bit of clever phrasing there, clever editing, photo shopping, computer enhancement...WHOOPSIE!! If the little dears go over da line they still made their profit and all they have to say is "We Deeply Regret" or "We Apologize".

When I see a "news" story I expect to see the opposite "news" story within minutes to a week, it rarely fails.

Is Zimmerman guilty of a crime? We'll never know since we don't know what happened, evidence is circumstantial and only one side lives to tell the tale.

If only the cops taken a picture of the back of Zimmermans head like they do in domestic violence cases.

If only the lady had looked out the window and described what she saw.

If only...

Sandra
04-04-2012, 01:25 PM
Don't you DARE blame me for what others do - I do not condone lynch mobs. In fact, in an earlier post I had stated that people need to let the wheels of justice do their job so no, it's not me executing anyone.

Although I will say this - the public's outrage is misplaced - it's not Zimmerman's fault that the authorities are refusing to do their jobs. I think that had they done their job, and arrested Zimmerman and brought him to trial, then there would be no public outrage right now.

As I've stated, Zimmerman needs to be arrested and brought to justice. A jury needs to decide whether he is guilty or innocent, or he can waive the right to a jury trial and have a trial by judge. It is his right and the people's right.

Sandra
04-04-2012, 01:32 PM
Marc - I listened to an unedited version of the 911 call and did not hear the racial slur that the news reported - so I am glad MSNBC apologized for reporting that. Now to have all the other news agencies follow through on that - but will they?

I agree with you that more has been made of this than what is - once again the newsmedia has played the race card and it has upset not only the black community who feels they've been victimized as a whole by this crime, but also the white community who feels that was unnecessary.

Again the media has traded responsible journalism for yellow journalism and has incited anger in the masses. Shouldn't they be held accountable for that somehow?

Marc.N
04-04-2012, 02:31 PM
Direct to Marc: Presumption of Guilt is a Constitutional issue. And based upon that, I'm not opinionating, I'm saying "Lynch mob Mentality" is outside the law and no more acceptable in this instance than at any other time . . If you have a problem with that, you need to become friends with your Constitutional Law Professor, Barack Obama. You have something in common. No respect for the Constitution and the ability to opinionate when you know little or nothing of the circumstances . .

Zimmerman's FACTUAL 911 call clearly verbalizes his presumption of guilt of the man he shot and killed and engaged in Lynch Law mentality with: "This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about."

So you say it is a FACT Zimmerman thought outside of the law and we all know it's a FACT he didn't turn away and drive off. I think it's safe to reasonably assume he based his subsequent behaviors on his Lynch Law Mentality since he presumed guilty the man he eventually shot and killed.

Thanks for clarifying that Large.

Sandra
04-04-2012, 02:43 PM
Marc, I'm impressed!

Marc.N
04-04-2012, 02:57 PM
The Today show's segment, which included an ellipsis on screen to indicate omitted text, ran as:

"Zimmerman: This guy looks like he's up to no good ..."

"Zimmerman: He looks black."

The full conversation ran as:

"Zimmerman: This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy – is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black."

....telegraph.co.uk (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9184800/NBC-News-apologises-for-edited-George-Zimmerman-broadcast.html)



NBC's "Today" show ran the edited audio of Zimmerman's phone call to a police dispatcher, seeming to show Zimmerman saying, "This guy looks like he's up to no good … he looks black."

A transcript of the complete 911 call shows that Zimmerman said, "This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about."

The 911 officer responded saying, "OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?"

"He looks black," Zimmerman said.

The abridged conversation between Zimmerman and the dispatcher that NBC ran on March 27 has been blasted by media watchdog groups as misleading. Critics have said the edited version was made to suggest that Zimmerman targeted Martin because he was black -- an accusation by many that is still under investigation.

...foxnews.com (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/03/nbc-issues-apology-edited-zimmerman-11-call/#ixzz1r6xR7BCp)

Marc.N
04-04-2012, 03:11 PM
If you want to hear the actual recordings of the 911 call and the NBC edited one:

NBC Edits Zimmerman 911 Tape (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bDOF18xbb0&feature=relmfu)

large
04-04-2012, 04:54 PM
Zimmerman's FACTUAL 911 call clearly verbalizes his presumption of guilt of the man he shot and killed and engaged in Lynch Law mentality with: "This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about."

So you say it is a FACT Zimmerman thought outside of the law and we all know it's a FACT he didn't turn away and drive off. I think it's safe to reasonably assume he based his subsequent behaviors on his Lynch Law Mentality since he presumed guilty the man he eventually shot and killed.

Thanks for clarifying that Large.

Reading the Bold type in your statement . . Does that say anything about what Zimmerman was thinking? Does this indicate Zimmerman was planning to shoot the guy he was following? No, it describes a person he's either watching or following, and describing why the guy got his attention . . His presumption on the "up to no good" to the dispatcher certainly doesn't sound like he's planning on "Gunning Down" or "Shooting the kid like a rabid dog" . . And If I follow you for six blocks down a darkened street, you still have no right to come back and try to assault me . . If you do, I have all the right in the world to shoot you . . And that's the law in Colorado, not Florida.

But, you, nor I, have a clue about what took place or was said or done, exactly. Zimmerman was near his vehicle when he was either accosted or assaulted. That being the case, one has to assume that he, sometime after the dispatcher told him to "Break it off", did so, and went back in the direction of his SUV. Again, this is what we all know. You can put thoughts into Zimmerman's statement, you can assume what took place between the time Zimmerman talked to the dispatcher and the time the 911 call came in from the "Only" witness. But it's all assumption, inferences and imagination thought up by busybodies and people who make a living off sensationalizing things like this . . We cannot convict a person of anything until the authorities decide they have a case they can come close to successfully prosecuting . . If they don't have a case, then the rest of us don't either!

And, because there's been so much racism injected into this or at least implications of same by high profile Racemongers and several Black Congresspeople, if the Sanford Authorities decide they don't have enough evidence to convict him of much, or try him and he beats the rap, what of the urban areas in this country . . They'll go nuts! Because, for the most part, THEIR leaders, starting with THEIR President has either said or implied that Zimmerman is guilty and has a price on his head . .

Peace . . .

Sandra
04-04-2012, 09:32 PM
Large -- I can vouch for what Marc is saying - I didn't hear the edited versions, I heard the unedited versions where Zimmerman was simply answering the call taker's question when he mentioned that Martin looks black.

It doesn't matter at this point whether Zimmerman was planning on shooting the guy after catching him - because what they were looking at, as far as evidence, was either 2nd degree homicide (which isn't necessarily murder) or manslaughter. If they were looking to charge him with first degree murder or even 1st degree homicide, then yes, they'd have to be able to prove that Zimmerman's actions were premeditated, and that's not what anyone is looking for. I think we can all agree that there isn't enough evidence to convict him for such a thing. But I think there is enough evidence to convict him of manslaughter or 2nd degree homicide. Manslaughter is a more realistic outcome - they could charge him with the more serious offense and he could plea bargain down to a lessor one. That is, IF they charge him with anything.

smt
04-05-2012, 01:32 AM
"
Dispatcher: Late teens, ok.
Zimmerman: Something is wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what he deal is.
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, ok.
Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?
Dispatcher: Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.
"
So, what was wrong with Martin?

Marc.N
04-05-2012, 06:39 AM
Two fearful people meet and have a relationship that did not end in hugs.

Here's a pretty good bunch of opinions with footnotes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

smt
04-05-2012, 07:21 AM
Here is an oldie...
Revolution and American Indians: “Marxism is as Alien to My Culture as Capitalism”
http://endofcapitalism.com/2010/10/17/revolution-and-american-indians-marxism-is-as-alien-to-my-culture-as-capitalism/

Marc.N
04-05-2012, 07:29 AM
"
Dispatcher: Late teens, ok.
Zimmerman: Something is wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what he deal is.
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, ok.
Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?
Dispatcher: Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.
"
So, what was wrong with Martin?

Same thing as Zimmerman. Martin's call with his girlfriend and her hearsay indicates his presumption of guilt of the man who shot and killed him. Martin engaged in Lynch Law mentality also.

large
04-05-2012, 08:17 AM
Right now, there isn't enough evidence, based upon Florida Law, to even arrest him for jaywalking, let alone any sort or variation of homocide.

My problem with all this Bullsh*t is that the media has, with the help of people like you, Sandra, CONVICTED someone of something that needed to be investigated and run through the Justice system, with or without an arrest or charges . .

The opinionators, Racemongers and Media never waited to see the facts, but instead used the facts or innuendo in an edited and deleted manner to make something seem like it was something that facts, when viewed in their entirety, and proper order, show just the opposite . . Period. Zimmerman defended himself. Period. What led up to it is literally a non argument. Zimmerman never spoke to Trayvon or gave Trayvon Martin any reason to attack him, other than following him to "See what he was up to" . . A citizen's right and some might argue, a duty.

Fact. Zimmerman was Assaulted by Trayvon Martin. Fact. Zimmerman was being beaten up by Trayvon, with a witness to testify to that. Fact. Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin in the act of defending himself as per Florida Law . . End of story.

Marc.N
04-05-2012, 09:54 AM
Actually Zimmerman got in Martin's face and pushed him (assaulted) and Martin pushed back with gusto. They wrestled on the ground til old man Zimmerman was outta breath so he went Macho Man and killed Martin.

The so called witness said whatever Zim told him to say.

large
04-05-2012, 10:20 AM
Actually Zimmerman got in Martin's face and pushed him (assaulted) and Martin pushed back with gusto. They wrestled on the ground til old man Zimmerman was outta breath so he went Macho Man and killed Martin.

The so called witness said whatever Zim told him to say.

And . . How do you know this? Was there a recording or another witness to account for this story? based upon the facts and witness, Zimmerman was headed back to his SUV when Trayvon came up on the left side, exchanged words and then, knocked Zimmerman down and jumped on top of him.

Then, apparently, or obviously, Zimmerman shot and killed him in defense. Just as I would have . . Because, when a person is attacked, he has (as the Florida laws illucidated) the right to defend himself from, possibly, mortal danger . .

And here's the kicker . . Zimmerman's story is this: (his father related this in an Interview) As he was going back to his vehicle, Trayvon came up from the left, asked him if he was "looking for trouble" and then said "well, you've got some now!" and hit Zimmerman in the nose.

As for your imaginative version of a "Wrestling Match", whatever, there's still no facts indicating that your version happened. Only that "A red shirted figure was on top of another man and beating him"

Now, if Trayvon can dispute that, go for it . . . Because, as far as I know, Zimmerman is the only one who actually knows what was said, and what was done . . And we only know the outcome.

Sandra
04-05-2012, 10:54 AM
And here's the kicker . . Zimmerman's story is this: (his father related this
in an Interview) As he was going back to his vehicle, Trayvon came up from
the left, asked him if he was "looking for trouble" and then said "well, you've
got some now!" and hit Zimmerman in the nose.



Large - first - you're doing what you're accusing other people of doing, and secondly - his father wasn't even there, so what would he know other than whatever he is told by his son?

Come on, he just shot and killed a guy - don't you think he's going to try to justify it somehow?

Next, and for the gazillionth time - the evidence doesn't support that story. Zimmerman's vehicle was not anywhere near where the incident occurred, so what makes you think Zimmerman is telling the truth? I think his story that Trayvon came up to him is a bunch of malarky meant to cover his own arse.

Marc.N
04-05-2012, 11:39 AM
Don't take it so serious Sandra. Large is well known as a type A egoist who just HAS to win (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVAhPR1TOQE). He's driven more people to vote for Obama than any Democrat troll could ever hope to.

The good news is I got my Taxes filed. YIPEEEEEE!!! Applause! Thank you. Thank you very much. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiNMz_745vQ)

(With a special apologie to mums who's baby's I've awakened with my tax filing excessive celebratory excesses)

Let's dance!!!

large
04-05-2012, 12:00 PM
On Zimmerman . . Hid dad's testimony will be asked for if he goes to court. The State, or Zimmerman's defense can ask for it to be called heresay, but it's just what Zimmerman told the S.O. in Sanford. This is according to both the Father and Zimmerman's Lawyer on National TV. Nothing in the interview was edited. It was LIVE.

And . . Like it or not, that's probably the story that we'll have to live with.

But, you see, I'm not trying to be a JUDGE AND JURY based upon heresay.

The ONLY Opinion I have, is to wait and see what the People in Sanford Florida do, not what you two THINK they ought to do . . You neither live there, vote there or deal with their laws . .

So quit acting like amatuer prosecutors and just shut up until they (The Law) do whatever they decide to do. Then you can go out into the streets and set garbage cans and tires on fire or whatever all you folks do when you're "Discriminated" against . .

Sandra
04-05-2012, 12:15 PM
Large - I'll tell you right now, Zimmerman's father will be discredited right away for a couple of reasons - one is bias for his son, another is that his father's testimony, being "hearsay" is probably not admissible anyway.

I'd like to point out that Zimmerman's father contends that his son did not chase, pursue, or follow Martin at any time, which is already contrary to the evidence. Zimmerman had already admitted (to the 911 call taker and to police officers) to following Martin, for one, and for another, you can hear him on hte 911 tape actually chasing the kid - and you can hear him running and you can hear him huffing and puffing for air in a manner consistent with a person running. So there is no doubt anywhere that Martin did, in fact, pursue Martin - yet the father is denying this. That alone could serve to discredit any relevent testimony that the man might have to offer.

He could be questioned by the prosecution in an attemt to discredit Zimmerman's testimony and prove that he committed a crime, though, and given the things his father has already said - if he were to say the things on the witness stand that he has told the press, the court might get the impression that he and his son were conspiring - and that's a felony for Zimmerman because that's tampering with a witness and the court can hold him accountable for that.

BTW - the police did issue a letter explaining why they had not arrested Zimmerman. They contend that because Zimmerman claimed self defense and they were unable to disprove that at the time, that they were prohibited by law from arresting Zimmerman.

Had Martin lived to tell about it, though, there would have been other evidence that would have disputed Zimmerman's claims and Zimmerman probably could have been arrested, but that's just my own speculation - this was not written into the letter.

So basically what it amounts to, though, based on the letter I read, they're taking Zimmerman at his word but they feel that the incident was morally reprehensible and they say they feel the community's pain. Again, not their wording - this is my interpretation of what I read.

Sandra
04-05-2012, 12:19 PM
The good news is I got my Taxes filed. YIPEEEEEE!!! Applause! Thank you. Thank you very much. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiNMz_745vQ)

(With a special apologie to mums who's baby's I've awakened with my tax filing excessive celebratory excesses)

Let's dance!!!

wooohooo! turn up the tunes!!!!
:wave::wave::wave:
:wave::wave::wave:

smt
04-05-2012, 12:20 PM
Same thing as Zimmerman. Martin's call with his girlfriend and her hearsay indicates his presumption of guilt of the man who shot and killed him. Martin engaged in Lynch Law mentality also.
What are you talking about?

Loren Swelk
04-05-2012, 12:25 PM
WTF in the News successfully hijacked:

large
04-05-2012, 12:59 PM
Yeah, this shoulda been in a thread of it's own . . I mean Lynching's are serious business . . .

Marc.N
04-05-2012, 01:38 PM
What are you talking about?

Hello troll.

Include the quote I was responding to and all will be made clear. Nice try troll.

SMT. I've been doing battle with trolls for over 20 years. Don't bring nail clippers to a gun fight.

Marc.N
04-05-2012, 02:18 PM
Lynch Mentality and Lynch behavior are, IMHO, a human trait based in genetic instincts.

Both parties were prejudging the other party. Even the most ignorant aboriginal cockroach eater wisdom says it take 2 to tango.

Teenage level cadet ROTC training tells us one of the first steps to warfare is demonization of the enemy to dehumanize them to make it psychologically easier to kill them.

Both parties demonized, both parties dehumanized. Lynch Law on both parties part.

We all know both parties mind read each other and demonized the other of criminally dangerous behavior before the kill shot was fired.


Games People Play: The Psychology of Human Relationships is a 1964 bestselling book by psychiatrist Eric Berne...The book describes both functional and dysfunctional social interactions.

---Wickipedia
---Amazon.com
---etc. etc. etc

The psychology of this situation was well defined in laymans terms in a popular self help book almost 50 years ago.

What's pathetic is, based on the available evidence, Zimmerman stalked an innocent person and due to his paranoid aggressiveness ended up creating a situation where someone died. Even a trained expert told him not to pursue.

smt
04-05-2012, 02:35 PM
clip.

Marc.N
04-05-2012, 03:02 PM
Ouch! You got the flesh!

large
04-05-2012, 04:11 PM
Marc, you're really screwing with the Devil here . . If You want to play "Troll" remember the last time you played around and then didn't come around for months?

Wanna dance again? Because if I remember right, in a battle of wit, you came half armed and with a really, really thin skin . . Got yer feelings hurt the last time . . better let it rest . .

Marc.N
04-05-2012, 05:29 PM
Large, there's no bigger troll than you.

Marc.N
04-05-2012, 05:39 PM
Europe Is Baffled by the U.S. Supreme Court (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/04/europe-baffled-us-supreme-court/50806/)


Europe is scratching its head over possibility that the U.S. Supreme Court will strike down President Obama's signature legislative achievement. As the judiciary and the Obama administration trade legal barbs over the high court's authority, the idea that health care coverage, largely considered a universal right in Europe, could be deemed an affront to liberty is baffling.

---theatlanticwire.com

Sandra
04-05-2012, 07:26 PM
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Loren Swelk
04-05-2012, 08:14 PM
What other hospital could they have taken him to? (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/indiana-scrotum-horror-769123)

smt
04-06-2012, 01:57 AM
Jesse Jackson Takes Up Cause of Schiavo's Parents
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/30/national/30schiavo.html

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Marc.N
04-06-2012, 06:59 AM
Here is an oldie...
Revolution and American Indians: “Marxism is as Alien to My Culture as Capitalism”
http://endofcapitalism.com/2010/10/17/revolution-and-american-indians-marxism-is-as-alien-to-my-culture-as-capitalism/

Very thought provoking. Thanks for posting it.

Marc.N
04-06-2012, 07:03 AM
Jesse Jackson Takes Up Cause of Schiavo's Parents
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/30/national/30schiavo.html

I'm glad I am not in the Schindler's shoes. The situation has no clear cut and dry answers.

smt
04-06-2012, 08:28 AM
There is always the story of Colorado's own Michelle King, in July of last of '09.
~40 miles....

large
04-06-2012, 08:45 AM
What other hospital could they have taken him to? (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/indiana-scrotum-horror-769123)

Hmmmm, a "Home Vasectomy" . .

ouch!

MTDismuke
04-06-2012, 08:48 AM
This incident has boiled many bloods on both sides of the fence. Most of it is fueled by emotion of what's right or wrong. No matter how deeply anyone feels about this case it won't change the fact that it is governed by Florida's laws whether you agree with them or not. Based on the actual evidence presented Zim most likely will walk. I personally feel the bigger picture is the fact he wasn't arrested that night. Whether or not he was guilty or found guilty would have been beside the point. The main answer to that question is Florida's Stand Your Ground Law. Once again, the media is to blame for this disaster of misleading the nation. NBC is one of the primary reasons this case blew out of control by doctoring the tapes. Then other news media's took their lead and went with it to include even CNN and probably others ( I don't watch others) but my guess is they all added fuel to the fire and painted an ugly picture of race/hate crime gunning down a little boy with skittles. Finally after a few days of protesting the media withdrew from their stance and began reporting the actual news and then the nation finds out that this little boy turned out to be a 6'3 young adult. Zim wasn't even white. I could go on and on.

large
04-06-2012, 08:48 AM
Europe Is Baffled by the U.S. Supreme Court (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/04/europe-baffled-us-supreme-court/50806/)


Europe is scratching its head over possibility that the U.S. Supreme Court will strike down President Obama's signature legislative achievement. As the judiciary and the Obama administration trade legal barbs over the high court's authority, the idea that health care coverage, largely considered a universal right in Europe, could be deemed an affront to liberty is baffling.

---theatlanticwire.com

If it isn't in the Bill of Rights or the amendments following the first ten, then it isn't a "Right" . .

But I'm sure you (and Sandra) will argue that it is . . .

smt
04-06-2012, 09:11 AM
This incident has boiled many bloods on both sides of the fence. Most of it is fueled by emotion of what's right or wrong. No matter how deeply anyone feels about this case it won't change the fact that it is governed by Florida's laws whether you agree with them or not. Based on the actual evidence presented Zim most likely will walk. I personally feel the bigger picture is the fact he wasn't arrested that night. Whether or not he was guilty or found guilty would have been beside the point. The main answer to that question is Florida's Stand Your Ground Law. Once again, the media is to blame for this disaster of misleading the nation. NBC is one of the primary reasons this case blew out of control by doctoring the tapes. Then other news media's took their lead and went with it to include even CNN and probably others ( I don't watch others) but my guess is they all added fuel to the fire and painted an ugly picture of race/hate crime gunning down a little boy with skittles. Finally after a few days of protesting the media withdrew from their stance and began reporting the actual news and then the nation finds out that this little boy turned out to be a 6'3 young adult. Zim wasn't even white. I could go on and on.
:bash:

large
04-06-2012, 09:53 AM
"And the FACTS will set you free!" . . .

Ditto, smt, Ditto . . . .

Sandra
04-06-2012, 09:58 AM
This incident has boiled many bloods on both sides of the fence. Most of it is fueled by emotion of what's right or wrong. No matter how deeply anyone feels about this case it won't change the fact that it is governed by Florida's laws whether you agree with them or not. Based on the actual evidence presented Zim most likely will walk. I personally feel the bigger picture is the fact he wasn't arrested that night. Whether or not he was guilty or found guilty would have been beside the point. The main answer to that question is Florida's Stand Your Ground Law. Once again, the media is to blame for this disaster of misleading the nation. NBC is one of the primary reasons this case blew out of control by doctoring the tapes. Then other news media's took their lead and went with it to include even CNN and probably others ( I don't watch others) but my guess is they all added fuel to the fire and painted an ugly picture of race/hate crime gunning down a little boy with skittles. Finally after a few days of protesting the media withdrew from their stance and began reporting the actual news and then the nation finds out that this little boy turned out to be a 6'3 young adult. Zim wasn't even white. I could go on and on.

Well stated, MT.

smt
04-06-2012, 10:25 AM
any news on octo-mom?

smt
04-06-2012, 10:43 AM
what about her kids?

Marc.N
04-06-2012, 11:07 AM
If it isn't in the Bill of Rights or the amendments following the first ten, then it isn't a "Right" . .

But I'm sure you (and Sandra) will argue that it is . . .

Works for me. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bQnxlHZsjY)


:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

large
04-06-2012, 11:07 AM
Dunno if you can put any stock in it since it was stated by the News Media, again, both NBC and CBS, but they reported that she has applied for "Welfare" and is eligible for $2000 a month in Welfare payments . . Not to mention, I suppose, Housing, Food Stamps, WIC, Medicaid and any other largesse that the State would offer.

It was also reported that the State is seeking reparations from the Gyn/Ped Doctor who inseminated her, but that's kind of a "Dry Hole" because he's had his license to practice revoked . .

My problem with this is . . She's a "Single" Mother who made these choices, and it eventually becomes the burden of the Taxpayer. WTF was she thinking?

Marc.N
04-06-2012, 11:29 AM
smt. I feel I judged you unfairly.

I engaged in fearful Lynch Law mentality and behavior. I apologize for calling you a troll. I was very very wrong.

Marc.N
04-06-2012, 11:56 AM
At a certain point octomoms are predators taking advantage of good hearted voters.

At the same time we are constrained as they may killl their children.

So we good hearted people get stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Sandra
04-06-2012, 11:59 AM
Originally Posted by largehttps://pueblocommunityforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://pueblocommunityforums.com/showthread.php?p=43102#post43102)
If it isn't in the Bill of Rights or the amendments following the first ten, then it isn't a "Right" . .

But I'm sure you (and Sandra) will argue that it is . . .

Back in the day when the US Constitution was penned and the bill of rights ratified men didn't need Uncle Sam to hold their dicks for them when they pee'd.

large
04-06-2012, 12:01 PM
How about the Gal who, supposedly, won a third of the Mega Millions Jackpot . . And can't find the ticket?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/06/mega-millions-wannabe-loses-105m-winner-not-sure-has-it/?test=latestnews?test=latestnews

and

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/mcmama_mega_tix_missing_SSbAZsXPpLzlegU4lgdyUI

She says she bought the ticket separately from the pool of employees she purchased tickets for, so we can see that she's not going to share any of it . . or at least, at this time, that's apparently her Idea . . .

First, You gotta know that the shyster lawyer that's her mouthpiece wouldn't be at her side 24/7 if he didn't think she had $105 Mil. You gotta know that dude ain't doing this Pro Bono . . !

Hell, if it's just the way she says it is, it's got a Date/Time on it and the time would be different, wouldn't you think?

On the other hand, there's a line of thought that she's stupidly sandbagging and hoping all those pissed off people will "Forget" . . Don't think so, Mirlande . .

large
04-06-2012, 12:08 PM
Back in the day when the US Constitution was penned and the bill of rights ratified men didn't need Uncle Sam to hold their dicks for them when they pee'd.

I'll go with that . . a very profound statement . .

And it still shouldn't . .

So what's changed in the Amendments that makes either Health Care or 90% of what the government provides a "RIGHT"?

Marc.N
04-06-2012, 12:22 PM
I'll go with that . . a very profound statement . .

And it still shouldn't . .

So what's changed in the Amendments that makes either Health Care or 90% of what the government provides a "RIGHT"?

What Amendments? The perks and retirement politicians get for doing end runs around the Constitution and Bill of Rights is worth millions.

The laws they pass get more enforcement weight than the Constitution and Bill of rights they view as obstructionist and obsolete.

IMHO what Congress has been doing is similiar to police "procedures" that run counter to sacred American values but get the same weight as laws passed by our representatives.

We're a Representative Republic. Why do the inmates have the keys to the asylum? We're supposed to have responsible staff follow procedures and keep the keys safe.

large
04-06-2012, 02:28 PM
Yeah, you're right. And it all goes back to that thing I posted by the "Unknown Author . .

Or . . .

To quote Pogo (Walt Kelly) . . " We have seen the Enemy and he is us" . . .

Sandra
04-06-2012, 05:14 PM
smt - haven't heard about octomom lately - but I hope she and her kids are doing well and being left alone by the busybodies...

large
04-08-2012, 09:07 AM
smt - haven't heard about octomom lately - but I hope she and her kids are doing well and being left alone by the busybodies...

Post #237 . . It's from a CBS News item posted on that day . . .

She's become just one more piece of Blight on the whole Welfare system . .

We've become her income providers and set precedent for the next woman who doesn't want to work for a living . .

Marc.N
04-08-2012, 12:51 PM
How many row of suckers are on each tentacle an octopus?

Answer:

There are 240 suction cups on each tentacle. Altogether there are 1920 suction cups.

---answers.com

Bob Nattering
05-08-2012, 09:13 AM
This is priceless: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2012/05/07/state/n174208D24.DTL&tsp=1

Marc.N
05-09-2012, 12:53 PM
Google car awarded first ever self-driving license in Nevada

http://www.tecca.com/news/2012/05/08/driverless-car-license-google-nevada/

Bob Nattering
05-09-2012, 01:53 PM
What if they license millions of these things to drive around in all of the states, and in 75-80 years they're all on our highways going 15-20 miles an hour?