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View Full Version : Wow! Lookit alla the police chief candidates this year!



Sandra
12-03-2010, 10:21 AM
I see we have a gazillion candidates for Police Chief this year. What's up with that?

Jay Coons is certainly the most attractive looking - and his mother lives here! Isn't that nice? And he knows the names of Pueblo's neighborhoods, too, so I guess that's worth the other half of his brownie point.

Andrew McLachlan has 26 years experience with PPD, which should speak for itself. I liked his remark quoted in the Chieftain about not having a hostile environment or the community will suffer.

Rodney Walker - Just say no. I'm sorry -- he looks like a nice happy guy and all, but as Deputy Chief of the most inept and corrupt police department in the state, he's a worm in the bushel. Colorado Springs Police have a very bad reputation with more power and control issues than they can shake a stick at, mistreating citizens on a daily basis as they give the US Constitution the one fingered salute. CSPD is known for committing atrocities against citizens that our current PD would never put up with - breaking into homes without warrants, taking surveillance equipment that captured it into "evidence" then destroying it later; pulling handicapped citizens out of their cars by their hair, tasering children, falsely accusing people of things - this man is all part of that Administration, and we don't need or want any of that in police leadership here.

Gary Adams - he has experience in affluent neighborhoods - he might not like it (or fit in) here. If he gets the job, he'll need new glasses - those wire rims won't last long. He did say he wants a challenge, and he'd definitely have one here.

Michael Denny might also be worth considering - he's from Mesa, AZ, so I'm sure he's kept pretty busy. I wonder what his thoughts are on Gov. Brewer's initiatives to fight illegal immigration. Anyone know anything about the reputation of the Department he comes from?

Robert Thomas Jr - from Delta and has been in Boulder. Hmm. He's interested in enforcing all laws, including the fireworks ban - Bessemer residents probably won't like him much.

Sandra
12-03-2010, 02:03 PM
What? No comments? No one cares about who our next police chief might be?

Loren Swelk
12-03-2010, 03:35 PM
My guess is McLachan and they brought the rest in to make it look like it was a national search.

Marc.N
12-03-2010, 03:36 PM
Huh?

Do the little people have a say?

Aren't these kinds of decisions made by big money consultants who conduct studies funded by six figure taxpayer dollars?

Sandra
12-03-2010, 03:51 PM
Contact your city council person, I guess? Or do we talk to the City Manager? Who makes the final decision?

Loren Swelk
12-03-2010, 04:13 PM
City Manager makes the final decision, so it is Jerry Pacheco's dog and pony show.

Sandra
12-03-2010, 05:02 PM
Anyone got his email address? I'd like to send him an email....

large
12-03-2010, 06:57 PM
My guess is McLachan and they brought the rest in to make it look like it was a national search.

Nahhh . . Andy's too old, gonna retire in less than 5 . . Coons is the front runner I think . . Denny's a close second because of his varied experience as a Policeman, Administrator and Prosecutor . .

As for Thomas? Fireworks? . . Whackamole is easier and more effective . . In Delta, you could find the guy who fired the firework before it came down . . Pueblo's a little more spread out!

And Loren's right, in the end, what we think don't matter, it's Pacheco's deal . .

Based upon what's happening in Bessemer Park, we don't need a Chief, we need more indians . . .

Loren Swelk
12-03-2010, 07:16 PM
Anyone got his email address? I'd like to send him an email....

cityadmin@pueblo.us I think. The council each has their own so this is all I have for Pacheco.

large
12-04-2010, 07:32 AM
Heh, heh, Autencio says the East siders are complaining about "Police Harassment" by running the complainants through CIC when they call to complain about their neighbors or gang members . . Kind of the same thing that went down when they had the Human Relations farce after the Pino killing. All the Jailbirds showed up to complain about the Police picking on them and their kids (when they weren't in jail)

And the rest of Council beefing about the overtime they're paying the PD . . But based on the last week's occurrances in Bessemer Park, if the Patrol Division is collecting any of it, it's being used to buy Donuts and Coffee and stay in out of the cold . .

On the other hand, the Detectives are working their Koondingies off most of the time . .

And I've been told that most of the DUI Patrol and set ups are overtime . . So where do they cut?

And I'm still betting on Coons . . .

Sandra
12-04-2010, 08:28 AM
I think I remember that meeting - I watched it on tv because I was in the hospital giving birth. What a fiasco! No one wanted to offer any solutions, they just wanted to blame the police for everything and not accept any responsibility for themselves or their behavior.

I'll never forget the one woman blaming the police for killing her son - who was being chased by police and killed when he ran into an intersection (apparently without looking) and was hit by a car as a result. She speculated that the only reason her poor innocent son ran into that intersection was because he was being chased by police without cause, and that he was running from the police because he didn't want to go to prison. Again.

Again??? So the police are the bad guys because her son was a criminal?

While I have seen a few incidents here in Pueblo where I think the police could have handled a situation better, those incidents are all very minor and still worked out for the better. But I've seen things elsewhere that cause PPD to look like a bunch of angels. Seriously I don't think PPD is all that bad, I like them and think they do a pretty good job for the most part. I lived in an area of town once upon a time where I saw the police have to respond to the community I lived in several times a night. One time they responded to the wrong address and while doing their police thing at first (attitude and all) they never assaulted the people, and the tension didn't mount. In fact they all (the people at the wrong address and the police) ended up cracking jokes with each other.

And this is the one that gets me - I was driving down the street with my baby daughter strapped into the back seat (I was driving a mini-van with tinted windows) and was pulled over real close to South High. The police officer carefully approaches my vehicle, takes one look at me and says, "oh." So naturally I had to ask. "Is everything okay, officer?" Turns out that a robbery had just happened in the vicinity and my vehicle matched the description of the vehicle used in the robbery. Wow! So without further adeu he let me go and I was back on my merry way.

Fast forward to this year, I'm reading the Colorado Springs Gazette on line and see a story about a man from Denver suing CSPD for stopping him, pulling him out of his car, beating the frick out of him and tasering him repeatedly. His crime? He matched the description of a robbery suspect who, an hour or so before hand, had been arrested elsewhere.

And the cops are making these remarks in the G's comments justifying police behavior because the guy looked like a robbery suspect.

Good golly miss molly! I'm glad I wasn't in Colorado Springs when I got pulled over that day with my baby in the back seat! That might have happened to me, too, and what would have happened to my little baby that I had in the car with me?

I thank God that the police officer who pulled me over was courteous to me. And I thank that officer's mother for raising him right, too.

I like that this department seems to have the ability to separate the criminal element from the non criminal element. They take pride in their work. I've read about a few mistakes they've made, I know of the cases where there was question about when they fired at someone - I've even questioned a few, myself. But it's not like it's a habit with them - especially when comparing this department to other departments. They may mess up once in a while, but it's not a blatant daily occurrence. Our police don't appear, to me, to be a bunch of bullies like some other departments I know, and I really hope we can keep it that way.

This is what I'd like to tell our City Manager.

west4567
12-04-2010, 11:24 AM
It's Pacheco's decision, but if a Council member or two have a problem with a candidate, he's gonna be off the list. Pacheco negotiated several resignations of staff because of Council complaints. He cut people that Dave Galli wouldn't cut.
Andy's the safest choice. Competent, down-to-earth, liked and respected within the department, tough as need be. Gutsy too. He's the one who puts on the bomb suit and pokes the box when a mystery package is reported.

large
12-04-2010, 04:05 PM
No bet's on Andy . . know him, respect him, like him . . but . . He 's gonna retire sooner . . or later. My bet's on sooner, whether he gets the position or not . . Andy's no spring chicken and My bet is this . . IF he gets the job it'll either kill him or run him off in a New York minute . . One, he's not much of a Politician, kinda calls 'em as he see's 'em (which we know won't work with the batch of Prima donnas on the Council) . . Two, retiring on a Chief's salary is a bunch better than a Major . .

My bet's still on Coons . .

Sandra
12-04-2010, 05:16 PM
What's the reason your bet is on Coons? Is that the one you like best for the job, or is there some other reason?

Just curious.

large
12-04-2010, 05:25 PM
Grapevine . . . .

and a hunch . . .

Sandra
12-04-2010, 06:47 PM
Well - I've read up on Harris County SO and I do have a couple of concerns about what I've read about that department, but I also looked the man's FB up and while I couldn't see his profile, I did see his picture and he looks like an incredibly nice guy. The pic that was in the Chieftain and the one on his FB profile show good countenance - he appears to be personable.

The other pics in the Chieftain - except for Rod - they all look businesslike.

Rod looks jolly and all - but I have no trust whatsoever for any CSPD person at all and they can thank themselves for that. Almost every day the G is reporting yet more CSPD abuse.

Sandra
12-04-2010, 06:54 PM
PS - whoever is chosen, I hope they join us here on the forum. Wouldn't that be nice?

large
12-04-2010, 08:17 PM
Probably not . . most Contemporary Cops are Control Freaks . .

Sandra
12-04-2010, 08:22 PM
I just thought it would be a good way for them to see a little bit of what's on the minds of some of the people in the community. Another way to get to know us.

large
12-04-2010, 09:03 PM
Heh, heh, for the most part, a buncha Geezers and Conservatives . . If a Police Chief got along up here, instead of a gun, he'd be carrying a rope with a hangman's noose on one end of it!

And using it frequently!

Sandra
12-05-2010, 11:11 AM
Interestingly, I tried to look all the candidates up on FB, and could only find the one. Well, so much for seeing what the others are all about, I guess.

large
12-05-2010, 11:35 AM
Sandra, a lot of us Geezers don't use Facebook . . for many reasons . .

Sandra
12-05-2010, 01:11 PM
You'd be surprised at how many do, though. It's a great place for networking if you don't get all personal or use the apps.

Loren Swelk
12-05-2010, 02:19 PM
You'd be surprised at how many do, though. It's a great place for networking if you don't get all personal or use the apps.

I agree with Large, Facebook is not a priority when they spend all day every day in face to face networking. Plus they would get flamed from the get go because someone's baby's daddy got roughed up when he resisted arrest.

Sandra
12-05-2010, 03:04 PM
Loren, you're on FB, aren't you?

I think most anyone who is anyone has a FB account. And Twitter too, actually.

I have some good FB networks - some political (local, state, and national), some media, some entertainers. I think my favorite FB media contact is Lisa Bloom - she always has something interesting and controversial to post. lol!

I guess I see your point where police are concerned, but there are a lot of cops on FB, interestingly enough.

large
12-05-2010, 03:09 PM
I guess I see your point where police are concerned, but there are a lot of cops on FB, interestingly enough.

They gotta have something to do when they're sitting in the donut shops . . .

snort!

Sandra
12-05-2010, 05:01 PM
You mean eating donuts doesn't keep them busy enough?

large
12-05-2010, 05:03 PM
Dunno . . Look at Bessemer Park!

ButwotthehelldoIknow?

Sandra
12-05-2010, 05:32 PM
OH, hey - I heard about that. It doesn't sound as much fun as eating donuts.

Buster.Tripp@Gmail.com
12-05-2010, 10:41 PM
Hope Andy gets the job. He would make a good top cop know Pueblo is involved with many, and he is liked by his peers. Bring in someone from out of town and the community will revolt. Look at Bill Young and Lee Everett, and Pueblo usely turns over in the top cop dept quite often. Pueblo is a melting pot that needs to be stired before it boils over and Andy would do that.

Loren Swelk
12-05-2010, 10:52 PM
Loren, you're on FB, aren't you?

Yes, I was coerced by my children, otherwise I would have no idea what they were doing. However, I have to be careful and not try to "parent" them via Facebook, tried a couple of times and all hell broke loose from their friends.

I never joined MySpace though, it seemed slimy from the get go.

Any inside information on who the cops want as their chief?

Sandra
12-05-2010, 11:47 PM
I don't think the community will revolt if someone from out of town takes the job - unless it's the candidate from Colorado Springs. lol!

If Andy gets the job, how much longer before he retires and the city has to spend the money to replace him, though?

That being said, I agree with you about giving him the job since he is local, but if we can get him to commit to staying on for a while that would be a real good thing. I'm all for locals running the city rather than bringing in someone from some other place - locals know more about the city than strangers.

large
12-06-2010, 08:12 AM
Couple of thoughts here . .

As I've said, Andy will probably take retirement within 5 years . . And that's about as long as most of the out of town recruits have lasted historically. So that's both a gimme and a who cares . .

There's a need for outside blood, even if it sometimes doesn't work out . . and it's time . . Reason being, Pueblo Police have gotten both comfortable and habitual about what they do and how they do it . . And, of course there's good and bad there . . A new Chief from outside the Goldfish Bowl will stir things up . . Because the new guy has been outside, looking in . . He see's things from a different perspective than does the insiders, even if they have valid reasons for doing what they do and how they do it.

And to qualify the last statement, when was the last time a Pueblo Police Officer, command or otherwise, got a job as Chief or Assistant Chief anywhere else in the country, much as the out of town applicants are doing here? Hell, one of them couldn't even get elected Sheriff . .

Sandra
12-06-2010, 08:24 AM
The problem with the new guy on the outside looking in is that he is not familiar with the ways and culture of Pueblo. We do things differently here.

Bring someone in from a big city and next thing you know this place has the same big city attitude that's getting Colorado Springs in trouble.

Granted, Colorado Springs is a "big city" compared to Pueblo, but to me a big city has over a million people in it, and comes complete with ghettos - Colorado Springs wouldn't know a ghetto if it came up and slapped them in the face. (Although they do have their own version of ghetto, I'll say that, it's just nothing like the real thing.)

Big city people with big city attitudes will turn Pueblo into another Colorado Springs - where everyone walks around snarling at each other as if they all have wedgies.

The first thing I noticed about Pueblo was how friendly people are here - strangers will say hello to each other on the street. Imagine that!

The second thing I noticed was the food. (How the heck does Taco Bell stay in business in this town?!) But that's another subject for another time.

large
12-06-2010, 09:52 AM
well, you gotta remember, a new Chief of Police is just that . . perhaps an "Attitude Adjuster" within his own bailiwick, but he's certainly not going to change the whole city's attitude . .

Look at it like soup . . no matter who the new "Chef" is, and what they add, it's still "Soup" . .

And if the City's leaders (?) don't like his recipes, they'll let him know by offering him a ticket out of town . . Or he'll decide the grass is greener someplace else and migrate . .

Sandra
12-06-2010, 10:10 AM
He may not change the whole city's attitude, but he can affect change within the attitude of the department, and I don't want to see that happen here.

If a big city leader treats Pueblo like a big city, we're going to see the same atrocities that plague Colorado Springs right now. I really don't want to see that happen here.

Bigger city cops tend to have no consideration for people's privacy or civil rights, and they tend to brutalize people more. They act like a bunch of bullies, and their leadership is to blame.

Look at Colorado Springs. I can't point to them enough - CSPD has gotten away with one crime against citizens after another because the city doesn't hold them responsible or accountable. We have a person applying for a job here who is a leader in that department. If he can't clean up his own department, why should he be working here? And the same goes for anyone who works for a big department that has issues with being able to remain civil towards the public at large. They bring that with them into leadership here, and guess how our own cops will start acting? (Because that's how they're trained)

A department is only as good as its leadership. So let the cops get a little comfortable here in Pueblo - we don't really need anything new anyway except extra gang enforcement, and that should come from within.

large
12-06-2010, 10:33 AM
But . . and I can go find a quote or two made by you in the past . . The behavior of the PPD is getting rather "Big City" also . . and has for about 7-8 years now . . The patrolmen have control issues and aren't really "People Persons" . . and, it can be blamed, again, as you said, on "Training" . .

We've discussed that in several threads both up here and in a couple of defunct forums we used to attend . .

Here's a clue . . I've been kinda gouging the PPD in a roundabout way up here . . on the Bessemer Park thing . .

It's one thing for a tagger to hit a site and maybe spend 15 minutes screwing up alotta stucco or siding. It's a whole different thing for a bunch of little pricks to spend 30 minutes plus writing gang language all over every thing that sticks up higher than a blade of grass in a city park . . well, I suppose you could offer the excuse that "police can't be everywhere", but . . Then, the same night another bunch of punks come in and write answers which had to take almost as long, and then have the initial dudes come back and cross all that out and write threats . .

Next day, big article, front page of the paper, with all the city fathers clucking their tongues . .

Next night, before it was all cleaned up . . both bunches are back . . did it again!

First time Shame on the gangsters . . next several times, where the hell are the cops?

Somehow, either the Command doesn't get it, or they don't care . . . Time for some new blood, maybe?

Sandra
12-06-2010, 01:09 PM
Don't get me wrong, I've seen some issues here in Pueblo, but they're nothing like up north.

As the US moves farther into a police state mentality, our problems are bound to increase sooner or later - I'd just like to put that off as long as possible.

Next, the police aren't babysitters, and I can understand that "can't be everywhere at once" issue, but where was the rest of the community? Is it time for neighborhood watch yet?

At what point does a neighborhood start looking after itself?

On one hand, I can kind of see why some cops have no patience with anyone (although it is still no excuse) - it's because we have such a nanny state mentality - we expect the cops to do everything for us, and, well, they just can't.

What's going to happen if an all out gang war breaks out at Bessemer Park? When its over, guess who the people will be complaining about? The gangs? Nope. They'll be complaining about the police.

It's going to be quite a trick - a real balancing act - for our new police chief to lead the city police in such a manner that they are tough on gangs and genteel with the rest of the citizens.

I think we need to increase citizen awareness and have more citizen volunteers and community effort.

Do we have an auxillary police department? I think the citizens and the police need to pull together here before there comes a time when we can't.

Loren Swelk
12-07-2010, 05:27 PM
City suspends search for new police chief while Pacheco studies the structure and organization of the police department? Sorry Jerry, you should have thought of this before the city spent all of this money on a dog and pony show for the public!

Sandra
12-07-2010, 07:22 PM
He'd better hurry. Isn't Billings retiring in a couple three months?

(I wonder if Jerry read my post. lol)

Sandra
12-07-2010, 07:25 PM
Any inside information on who the cops want as their chief?

Large seems to think it's going to be Coons.

Other than that, no one has said anything to me about who they favor.

Loren Swelk
12-07-2010, 07:32 PM
Here is the press release from the city about 2 hours ago:

After the first round of interviews, six candidates were selected for additional interviews and selection activities including a public event which took place on December 2, 2010.
On December 6, 2010, City Manager Jerry Pacheco briefed City Council on the status of the Police Chief recruitment process and discussed the feedback provided by selection activity participants regarding the candidates. Pacheco reported that each candidate was qualified to lead the Pueblo Police Department as Chief but more importantly, that the recruitment process itself provided valuable insights into the Police Department. Specifically, recent selection activities provided Pacheco with the chance to interface with multiple internal and external stakeholders revealing some concerns and opportunities for change within the Police Department which require further assessment and definition. Consequently, Jerry Pacheco has elected to temporarily suspend the Police Chief recruitment process to conduct a study of the Pueblo Police Department looking at organizational practices, culture and structure. According to Pacheco:
“The Police Chief is a critical leadership position and I believe halting the recruitment process in order to focus on the identification of department issues, needs and challenges, will enhance our understanding of exactly what skill sets and competencies we need in our next Police Chief. I have learned a lot in this process and know that the challenges are not unique to the Pueblo Police Department but are real and cannot be ignored. Nationwide, police agencies are facing enormous fiscal, generational, cultural and technological changes that require transformative leadership. City Council understands this and agrees that the better we are able to identify our specific needs and challenges, the more successful we will be in finding a candidate who has direct experience and energy in tackling the types of issues and opportunities facing our Police Department.”
Current Police Chief James W. Billings, Jr. reacted to the City Manager’s recommendation to conduct the study stating “I believe this was a thoughtful decision to take a step back and do some internal assessment of the Department to determine how to move the organization forward in a positive fashion. I am proud of the contributions I have made as Chief, but also recognize that the organization and community are changing and we need to be deliberate and concise in critical leadership decisions to set the new Chief and the Department up for continued success.”
City Manager Pacheco will commence the Department assessment immediately and will collaborate with internal staff and external subject matter experts on the review.

Sandra
12-07-2010, 07:37 PM
How interesting! Well, I think it's a step in the right direction - but then again, we won't know until we know.

large
12-07-2010, 09:02 PM
OK, Guess it's "Amateur Hour" at City Hall . . Our "Mustanged" City Manager isn't quite up to snuff when compared to either his predecessor(s) or somebody who might have been hired from the outside . . Same argument . . Why spend the money on a "Head Search" . . ? We got talent at home . . Really?

Lessee, Ole Jerry's City Hall Refurbish was advertised at $2.5 Mil . . it came in at $4.5, and we're still remodeling . . and the outlook on gaining more revenue next fiscal year looks pretty grim . .

Now, we're doing a national search for a new Police Chief, but right when the short strokes start, someone shouts "Wait a minute!" . . And it turns out that ole Jerry wasn't sure what he wanted to do . .

Does this guy talk to anybody besides himself?

Or . . perhaps this is just another example of the Council and the City Manager going off half cocked*. In the past, on other issues, both minor and major, both council and the manager's Office made decisions based on either heresay, rumor, or total ignorance of the facts affecting those issues.

I know, because I was involved in a couple of them . . as a fact finder, so to speak . . However, on the one closest to me, they saved themselves so that they could take the next step and then shoot themselves in the foot once more . . speaking now of Pueblo Motorsports Park . . They saved it from Thurston and his buddies, just to make it an "Enterprise", still managed by a group of amateurs, which is what they started to try to get away from . .

Do you think Pacheco is capable of learning anything about the function of the PPD outside of what the current command want him to know?

Sandra
12-07-2010, 09:49 PM
Do you think Pacheco is capable of learning anything about the function of the PPD outside of what the current command want him to know?

I see your point, but Jerry's a smart cookie - although a wee bit inexperienced at hiring a police chief, perhaps.

large
12-07-2010, 10:11 PM
I see your point, but Jerry's a smart cookie

Don't think so . . His track record hasn't garnered any medals . . or even head pats . .

Council has manipulated him far more than the opposite . . and his information for their perusal hasn't been of much quality . .

Loren Swelk
12-07-2010, 11:20 PM
I see your point, but Jerry's a smart cookie - although a wee bit inexperienced at hiring a police chief, perhaps.

Could that be the problem? When the time came to have to make a very important hiring decision, one that could possibly come back to haunt him, he couldn't pull the trigger so to speak?

large
12-08-2010, 06:01 AM
I dunno, I've sat in on quite a few City Council Meetings and at least once a night, something comes up that leaves him with that "Deer in the Headlights" expression . . and a definite stammer as he searches for a near plausible answer . .

Or worse . . Often he's searching the faces of Council for the "Politically Correct" answer, or at least the one that's the least liable to pi$$ off the majority . . something that he should have known about before the public discussion . .

And, just a guess here, but I think that's where he is on the Police Question . . Here's the biggest department under his supervision, and he doesn't know a d*mned thing about it.

Of course, I'll bet that there isn't a Council Member that does either . .

Kinda like a broken Watch . . Up to now all they wanted to know was "What time it was", Now . . They have to fix it!

Either that, or . . and I haven't heard this through the grapevine (Yet) but there may have been something ugly seep up through the floorboards while they were shining a light on the Police Department in the hunt for a new Chief . . CYA Time, 'spose?

Sandra
12-08-2010, 07:28 AM
City Council really seems to like him, though. When he replaced Galli they couldn't praise him enough. Now, I've been out of the loop a little, so I'm not up on all the latest stuff - has something changed?

Is it possible that maybe he's taking some time to make sure he's making the right decision for Pueblo? Maybe he thought of something that he hadn't thought of before and needs a little extra time to check some things out?

Do you think there is something going on within the department that is of concern, that is "hush hush" and that if the public finds out there will be trouble? That's kind of what it sounds like when you posted the remark about the the possibility of the department only telling him what they want him to know. I sense some distrust in the department on your part, so if I'm correct, would you be willing to share what your distrust is based on? If I'm not correct, then disregard the question.

large
12-08-2010, 08:13 AM
You talkin' to me? Heh, heh . .

Dunno, it's just one supposition. Generally people don't get religious until something bad happens, y'know, "Foxhole conversions" . .

Look at it this way . . a week of headlines and discussion, big interviews at the conference center last Thursday . . Then . . "Hold On, we need to look at what we want to do?" Something either turned up or Jerry's looking pretty indecisive . . me thinks . . and it certainly doesn't give me a lot of faith in the City Council, not that I'm too pumped about them anyway . .

Sandra
12-08-2010, 10:13 AM
This might not be a bad time to get in touch with your City Council person and discuss any concerns you have. I think that while the final decision rests with Jerry, he will take consideration of anything Council has to say, and if you have any concerns that you have relayed to your council person, then he or she should take that concern to him. Or you can contact him yourself, I guess.

I did express a concern that I had with one of the candidates and gave a rather detailed description of my concern complete with examples and everything via an email to my council person. I'm sure he'll bring that concern to Jerry - it's the same concern that I expressed here, only more detailed and I gave more examples.

I guess my own question concerns checks and balances. What does our department have in place that will help keep our cops from becoming bullies under the leadership of someone else? Aside from their own personal standards, that is. I don't mean to undermine our police officers' personal standards by any means - but there is a lot to be said for the way cops are trained these days, and I honestly think that today's bigger city cops are trained to be bullies. I don't see that in our cops and I don't ever want to see that in our cops, and I'm afraid that someone who comes from a department that has that mentality will train our cops to be that way.

large
12-08-2010, 12:07 PM
Well, lessee, my Councilman is Packrat so the call would be wasted and an eMail will be ignored, so what to do, what to do . . . ?

And if this is what I suspect it is, your call will probably go to another un-informed person who will probably answer your questions with more questions . . .

Buster.Tripp@Gmail.com
12-08-2010, 01:24 PM
Everyone has to remember the police dept is not liked or trusted by the older people say over 40. They have personal memories of the past. You have to look at the police dept personal. I think its a little over 200 or so cops. Take out the command staff, and what do we have little over 100 give or take. so how can they do there jobs. The people of Pueblo does not want someone to turn over the apple cart, and thats what a out of towner will bring. The biggest problem with the police dept is the lack of more cops. They have to prioratize the calls they get Murder or Graffitti. When you have more then 3000 hard core gang bangers your cup is running over. also pueblo is made up of many different races and they tend to stick together. The east side hates the west side and so on been that way forever. You would be very suprised on how smart some of our local cops are We have been sending them to school for years. I think Jerry is doing the smart thing at doing this assement of the Dept just might flush out some shady cops.

large
12-08-2010, 03:26 PM
Pretty much the same problems that any Metro area has with a mix of minorities . . and a shortage of Policemen . . as well as a shortage of money . .

I dunno if it's problems within, without, or poor planning on Jerry and the Council's part . . but I'm sure we'll see pretty shortly . .

Sandra
12-08-2010, 03:49 PM
Packrat?? Who's that? lol How about one of the at large council people?

Loren Swelk
12-08-2010, 04:29 PM
Packrat?? Who's that? lol How about one of the at large council people?

For those of us that knew Ray 40 plus years ago, he sure isn't the same guy we knew back then.

Sandra
12-08-2010, 05:05 PM
Oh, I see. I won't ask why he's called that then. lol!

large
12-08-2010, 05:22 PM
For those of us that knew Ray 40 plus years ago, he sure isn't the same guy we knew back then.

And he whines to me not to call him that in public . . I suppose we could refer to him as the "Elected Felon" . . .

Sure as hell can't call him "The Honorable Mr. Aguilera" now can we?

Nahhh, Better "Packrat" . . .

Loren Swelk
12-08-2010, 05:32 PM
And he whines to me not to call him that in public . . I suppose we could refer to him as the "Elected Felon" . . .

He is a little more touchy about that than in using his more familiar moniker.

Sandra
12-08-2010, 08:50 PM
Well, I think he deserves to be addressed properly - call him packrat when you're not in public. He's not a bad guy.

Maybe I should run for his seat when his term is up. Wouldn't I make a good council woman? ;)

large
12-09-2010, 07:53 AM
Just be ready to relive any of your past mistakes on a regular basis . . especially if you were to become embroiled in an unpopular decision about a popular issue . .

In the case of the contemporary Council, it's all about money, or closer . . the money they don't have . .

And as for "Packrat" . . those old nicknames just don't go away . . watch the obits . . all those guys who have their nicknames qoutationed in the middle of their proper names . . They left this world with that name . . why should Ray Aguilera be any different . . ?

Honestly, over the years, Ray has been a nice guy. He actually got in trouble by trying to be a "Nice Guy" . . it didn't work out because he was dealing with a real "Dick" who used his public office as a way to bully people in all sorts of business . . But Politics has made him pretty much what politics make of anyone who becomes one . . And while Packrat is a Politician, I didn't say he was a great one . . much of what he does and says are embarrassingly transparent . .

Sandra
12-09-2010, 08:00 AM
Honestly - I couldn't afford to serve the city anyway, I'd need far more income than I have. But if I had it, I'd run.

Ray is one of the Council people we love to watch because of his character, I think. He's a good guy who really means well, but I've seen where the press has had a field day with him because of something he said. lol! But he rolls with the punches, gotta hand it to him.

large
12-09-2010, 08:25 AM
My problem with Ray (Packrat) is this . . He's just like any other egotist who wants to be remembered for something "Grand", instead of being one of those who makes everything work like it's supposed to . . Build buildings, parks, and other things that will end up with your name on them . .

I guess that's better than being remembered for providing good streets, drainage, fire protection and an adequate Police Force.

Better'n Tombstones, too . . Except . . . Their cost takes away the services and needs that the Government is supposed to provide . . and their long term cost isn't even considered when begging and blathering to sell the ideas . .

If Ray's "Minnequa Park" gets completely built, how much is it going to cost every year to maintain, and how much of that will be "Public Funds"?

I'm not against Parks and Percs . . Love 'em . . But when there's no money to take care of the city's current obligations, why are we undertaking more of the same? A lot of the Percs are assisted by sponsors and donations . . A great share of the Sangre de Cristo Art Center's are. Granted, they receive a good share of their operating budget from the county, but donations and grants from donors maintain most of the art properties and exhibits . . and 99% of the improvements done each year are funded by generous donors . . not so much with our parks and open spaces.

See, that's my axe to grind with Packrat and Larry Autencio . . It's not just that they got the money for their pet projects, it was the "Sales pitch" . . Lame reasoning, false promises and bad math . . as well as . . there were better things to do with 2.5+ million dollars . .

Loren Swelk
01-27-2011, 08:50 AM
I see where ex Colorado Springs police chief Luis Velez has been appointed to the Pueblo interim position. I don't remember if they were killing two or more per day up there, as they are now, when he was chief. Well at least he can car pool with the Pueblo City Schools administration.

Sandra
01-27-2011, 09:05 AM
Are you kidding me?!

Loren Swelk
01-27-2011, 09:11 AM
Sorry to ruin your day, but no I am not kidding.

Sandra
01-27-2011, 09:59 AM
I'm not so sure that it ruins my day, I'm just shocked to hear it, that's all. Does he even live here?

Luis is a good guy - I know him from the Student Traffic Safety Advisory Committee in Colorado Springs - I enjoyed working with him, actually. I think he took a bad rap for something terrible that happened in Colorado Springs under his leadership - something that happens to leaders from time to time.

Sandra
01-28-2011, 07:15 AM
I need to come back here and say something else -

While I like Luis as a person, and I have a hard time believing he played a role in the evidence fiasco, I'm hearing some pretty strong evidence against him from other people and I can't help but wonder why he was chosen as interim.

It seems to me that under the circumstances, that may not have been a very good move.

As much as I like the guy, he does come from an extremely corrupt police department - what guarantees do we have that some of that corruption won't find its way down here?

large
01-28-2011, 10:24 AM
I can't help but wonder why he was chosen as interim.


Because Jerry likes him . . .


what guarantees do we have that some of that corruption won't find its way down here?

What makes you think it isn't here already?

colo native
01-28-2011, 11:01 AM
Maybe we do have corruption down here.So maybe we need someone like
Velez who knows how to manage it.

Marc.N
01-28-2011, 11:52 AM
Now accepting applications for City Corruption Manager. Has an interesting ring to it.

west4567
01-28-2011, 08:24 PM
I think Velez is a great hire. Good, honest cop. Smart. Tough. Respected. Just like Chief Billings, in those respects. Velez knows where the PPD is, inevitably, headed - it has to become a Big City PD, and it's got all the ingredients (due, in great part, to Billings).

Through no fault of his own, I don't believe Chief Billings could further transform the PPD; his work is done. Very few outsiders could come in and not be resented. Velez can, and will take the PPD to the next level.

Sandra
01-28-2011, 09:27 PM
If he's so good and honest, why did he lie about the evidence being destroyed, though? He allegedly sent a department wide email about it then months later told the press he knew nothing about it.

That bothers me. I always thought Luis was a good guy, but after hearing about that, I'm beginning to wonder, and I'd like more answers.

It sounds, from the Chieftain, like he got the job because he was a friend of our City Manager, and that, IMHO, is WRONG WRONG WRONG! That's conflictual, and under the circumstances I think Pacheco made a very bad move. It wreaks of "good ol' boy", and that's the same attitude that corrupted Colorado Springs. Do we really want that here?

Something isn't right about this picture.


Velez can, and will take the PPD to the next level.The next level of what?! Colorado Springs is as corrupt as corrupt can be - and he was a leader of that corrupt department. How do we know some of that corruption won't follow him down here?

Again, I like Luis, but I think placing him in this job was a bad move all things considered. Just poor business all the way around.

And the idea of Kramer (former City Manager of Colorado Springs - another extremely corrupt player in the game) being one of the people hired by the city to help critique the department is yet another bad move on the part of this city.

Colorado Springs City Government for years has become increasingly corrupt and the people of that city are largely afraid of their city government and police. They have no trust whatsoever in their city leadership - and when Kramer was leading them there was zero trust in that city for their leadership.

Involving the likes of Kramer and anyone from CSPD is a bad and dangerous move for Pueblo because it will eventually lead to Pueblo developing the same fear and lack of trust for our city government that Colorado Springs has for theirs.

Not a good move for Pueblo. I always thought this city was worth bragging about, but if this trend continues, I'll be sorry that I moved here. I really don't want that to happen.

west4567
01-29-2011, 10:04 AM
Kramer's not corrupt, and neither is the City of Colorado Springs. There are plenty of poorly run and corrupt city governments in the U.S.; Colorado Springs doesn't have that reputation. Kramer was not only a fine City Manager, but probably the best Chief the CSPD had in the past 30 years.

Citizens weren't afraid of Kramer - he was very well liked, and knew how to interact with the public better than most bureaucrats. (Same with Velez, as you've seen for yourself - it was a quality Chief Munger didn't have; Munger had everything else.)

Near the end of his tenure as Chief, Kramer was getting pretty heavily recruited by other cities. Council made it clear to Jim Mullen (a truly excellent City Manager for the Springs) that he needed to hang on to Kramer. I think it was clear to several on Council that Mullen wouldn't be there forever, and that Kramer was already the leading candidate for replacing him.

I've worked fairly closely to 5 or 6 city managers, and have worked directly for 4. Pacheco, far and away, is the most responsive to poor performance - if you're not doing the job (and not doing it aggressively), you will find yourself resigning soon. He was ruthless in this respect. It would be entirely uncharacteristic of him to hire someone based on friendship.

Pacheco's actually a pretty amazing young man, to grasp the job of City Manager as well as he has at such a young age. He's a native, so I don't know if he'll consider moving on in a few years. But he'd be in high demand, and I won't be surprised to see him running a Phoenix or Dallas by the time he decides to hang 'em up.

In the interest of disclosure, I work with none of these people. Beyond that, I remain with Loren in the witless protection program.

Sandra
01-29-2011, 10:43 AM
Colorado Springs IS corrupt. They're as corrupt as corrupt can be - and I can personally attest to that, having been on the receiving end of some of that corruption myself.

Kramer was a lousy city manager who caused the people of the city to lose confidence in him and the city both - that is easily reflected in the attitude of the city even today, and by the articles in the news at the time he was "in office".

Colorado Springs Police got to the point where they were committing crimes against the people - I was one of those - and then it would all just get swept under the rug - no apologies, no paying for the damage, nothing. In fact I was even called a liar when I went to admin to report that the police literally broke into my home, without a warrant, without probable cause, and AFTER I told them to leave. In the process they caused structural damage to my home and scared the living crap out of my children. They actually pulled that stunt on four different occasions, two of those times I was not even at home when it happened.

I won't go into all of the details, but I'm a law abiding citizen who seems to have several run ins with CSPD for some strange reason - coming to my house wanting to search it, but not saying why or what they're looking for. Isn't that just a little bit strange? Not to mention that one time when I was away from the property and my teenager was babysitting, a cop just comes in and takes it upon himself to take pictures of my home. My daughter called me on my cell phone and I told her to put him on the phone - I demanded to know why he was there and why he was taking pictures, then told him to leave my house.

Funny, there was no record of his being there or of those pictures.

There is case after case of CSPD breaking into people's homes - in one case it was an alleged welfare check. The police found no one home, but they took the home's surveillance equipment into evidence. For a welfare check? And on what grounds? It was really because the surveillance equipment captured the officers breaking and entering and they were tampering with the evidence by removing it. It was destroyed in the evidence fiasco a few short weeks later.

CSPD is well known for bullying Colorado Springers - there has been case after case published in the Colorado Springs Gazette and the CSIndy, too. And look how they treated Doug Bruce just last year - circulating memos targeting him for engaging in his Constitutional right to circulate petitions.

Let's not forget the case where the police pulled a handicapped woman out of her car by the hair then lied about it. I could tell you story after story of citizens who have been wrongly accused of things, had families torn apart, and more all because of lies told by CSPD officers. Who does a person call when the police are acting like criminals? When the cops are busting into your home and beating you up in front of your children, calling 911 doesn't help.

Whenever a citizen stands up to CSPD the city always backs CSPD up, hands down.

And remember the two cops who were caught cheating and falsifying documents concerning traffic tickets? They made it look like they wrote more tickets than they really did. How were they disciplined? With an early retirement and full bennies.

The citizens of Colorado Springs are afraid of their own police department and have no trust, whatsoever, in their city government or the police. And you want to try to tell me they aren't corrupt?

Have you ever even lived there? West, I like you, but you haven't got a clue.

Concerning Pacheco - I was impressed with him until I read that he hired his friend to be interim police chief. That just comes across like the "good ol' boy" system, and that's not cool or good city business - especially considering his "no confidence" vote coming from Colorado Springs, so I'm rethinking my opinion of his leadership.

Granted, Colorado Springs is corrupt and inept, but a no-confidence vote is still a no confidence vote, and hiring someone for such a position after such a thing isn't usually the smartest thing to do.

Again, nothing personal against Luis - I like him, but he did mess up, and if he messed up that badly once, he can do it again, so I am not so sure I trust him for that position. I hope he will prove me wrong, I really do. But if he doesn't, I'll be right here to loudly proclaim that I told you so. Deal?

BTW - LOL@ the witless protection program! Maybe I need to join...

large
01-29-2011, 12:20 PM
Corruption? There's always corruption, but it's the scale that becomes a problem. No government can be 100% transparent. To be so would impede operation of many departments and functions of that government.

And, as the size of the Government grows, so goes the degree of corruption. You can't think of a city having the same proportion of corruption the federal Government does . . What goes on in the Federal government on a given day would run the City of Pueblo for probably a year . .

In a city the size of Pueblo, there's always a little corruption, but it's called other things. And it's often in the gray areas between legal and "Not So Much" . . but as long as it does no more than greases the skids of the day to day operations, nothing much is said or done . . Most often it's done to expedite an issue(s) that would otherwise use up time and staff to get it done at a 100% transparent methodology . .

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an advocate of governmental corruption, but having been there, done that, I realize that you'll never eliminate all of it unless you change whole bureaucracies frequently . . Which would be neither practical or possible . .

On Mr. Jerry Pacheco . . A mixed bag . . He's come up from Planning, which gives him both actual and political knowledge . . but . . on several issues, he's stubbed his toe and sooner or later those issues will come back to haunt him, big time . . .

One is already rearing it's ugly head in less than a year after he led the Council into it against learned advice from some quarters . . And that's Pueblo Motorsports park . . Council,(with Mr Pacheco in attendance) stated publicly that PMP had lost $75k in their operation last year, under the auspices of Darrel Contreras and his company "Solutions, Inc" . . But, according to other company sources, the operating profit was $44k to the good . . and this, according to those who were in attendance, was noted by Council (and Jerry) but apparently ignored . . Which in itself isn't good and is going to lead to Hurried and potentially bad (again) decisions by both his Office and that of Council . . .

However, the reason, I state that it will comeback and haunt him, is that he went with the option of making PMP an Enterprise Operation of the City, rather than heeding the advice of several knowledgable people and opting for an independent lessor gained by an open RFB. There are a couple more of those Skeletons in the City Government's Closets, and they'll be popping out in the next year or so . . Sooner if the economy continues to be slow and revenues don't increase . .

Remember, while the City Manager is obliged to do the Council's bidding, it's also his job to give them transparent and knowledgable options to decide upon . . he hasn't done too well on several issues . . The PPD Chief search is just one "Little" Faux Paus . . He didn't have his ducks inna row or his chickens in the henhouse on this one . . And, unless he's deaf and dumb, he knew it was coming long before he was even made the "Interim" City Mgr . .

The overall problem with hiring or "mustanging" Bureaucrats into full management positions is simply that they only know what they know, and what they have been doing for those who were their bosses , but nothing about being an open minded executive . . which is the problem we have in 95% of our governmental agencies . . Bureaucrats, not "Executives" . . They don't understand a Profit and Loss Sheet, because that's foreign to their whole concept of operations . .

Sandra
01-29-2011, 01:12 PM
Pueblo has its own issues, but nothing like Colorado Springs. There's really no comparison.

I agree that Pacheco has done a good job as City Manager, overall, but this police issue is not a good mark on the record.