PDA

View Full Version : Why don't you smoke pot?



Steve M
05-15-2005, 07:35 PM
Please take 15 or 20 seconds to complete this poll. I am collecting data on this subject.

http://www.misterpoll.com/results.mpl?id=1538356368

MoralCompass
05-16-2005, 04:35 AM
Why not smoke pot? First off, it should be legalized and regulated just as alcohol is, thus reaping the tax benefits and freeing up law enforcement to address more dangerous drugs like meth, heroin, coke, etc. All that said, it isn't a good idea for anyone to smoke it. It can cause cancer, it can cause men to grow breasts, and it does cause frequent users to become lethargic toward life and career. It does seem to help those with appetite disorders caused by some cancer treatments. If it were legalized it would substantially reduce the drug cartels, and end the huge amount of money leaving this country illegally. There needs to be a stronger effort toward drug rehabilitation of users, and less prosecution of users who do not engage in selling it or other in other crimes some use to pay for a habit.

Since it is a so called "gateway drug", the monies gained from taxation can then be applied to drug education and treatment, similar to the way tobacco and alcohol is currently taxed. Sadly however, just like the money gained from those taxes now is little used for stop smoking and alcohol treatment facilities and programs, the government would soon realize that it is an easy way to pay for programs other than those which would truly aid society.

Ideally, we would educate and have programs to discourage abuse of tobacco, alcohol and other drugs, and thus by the laws of supply and demand, eliminate the need for the DEA, and lower the crime rate by eliminating the numbers of crimes commited by people trying to support drug habits.

As it is, by using DEA, ATF, and other agencies at taxpayer expense, we actually keep the prices of pot artificially high, which makes the drug cartels more money, not less. If we treat the demand side of the problem instead of the supply side, the problems won't go away, but they will become much more managable and tolerable, certainly safer for users and definately cheaper for tax payers.

large
05-16-2005, 12:56 PM
Hmmmm, lessee . . 'cause it's illegal . . . But not illegal enough . . . . just as most drug possesion for use is not "Illegal Enough" . . We have liberalized our Drug abuse laws so that we won't have prisons full of users, but we'll sure as hell send a dealer up the river for a long time . . (if he gets caught enough times) . .

We wouldn't have Dealers if we didn't have users! People quit buying dope on streetcorners and at dealer's homes . . the dealers, smugglers and growers would be out of business tomorrow . . simple law of supply and demand!

And there's more Dope available today than there was 20 years ago . . How can I say that? easy . . again, the law of supply and demand . . which dictates price . . and allowing for inflation, a lid of good grass is cheaper than it was 20 years ago, a gram of "coke' is even cheaper, and, I've been told, "Smack" is cheaper and better than it's ever been! And we spend billions trying to interdict it on the way into this country.

BUT, you say, Pot isn't REALLY Dope . . . B.S. . . . show me a pot user that isn't a crack smoker or a "coke" user and I'll show you a novice pothead! And even good grass makes a new man of you, and that new man wants some more good grass . . . . pretty quick, dope use as an avocation becomes an obsession, with the next "High" being far more important than anything else in the user's life . . . and stuff starts disappearing from family's and friends homes . . and so on . . .

And there's no use arguing this one . . I can name names, and if you choose to argue . . first look at your own social circle of those who get "High" more than once a day (no fair counting the guy that only gets high once . . All Day!) and look at their lives . . usually by about the 5th year, they have become very paranoid, with schitzophrenic tendencies . . . and then a typical long term abuser (of even alcohol, as well as other dependency creating drugs) will usually either have bouts of deep depression or become Bi-Polar . . . . .

Wotta way to relax!

Zen Curmudgeon
05-16-2005, 03:40 PM
>>snip<<
. . and allowing for inflation, a lid of good grass is cheaper than it was 20 years ago, In 1968 I could buy an ounce of Mexican pot for $10. Some high end Canadian (yes, Canadian) goes for upwards of $800 an ounce. It is true that the Canadian grass assays out to a higher THC content, but $800 will buy a whole lot more of the medium grade stuff. :)


BUT, you say, Pot isn't REALLY Dope . . . B.S. . . . show me a pot user that isn't a crack smoker or a "coke" user and I'll show you a novice pothead! And even good grass makes a new man of you, and that new man wants some more good grass . . . . pretty quick, dope use as an avocation becomes an obsession, with the next "High" being far more important than anything else in the user's life . . . and stuff starts disappearing from family's and friends homes . . and so on . . . Oh no. Not the "gateway" theory again.

"Marijuana: Facts for Teens."
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Washington, D.C. 1995, p.10. "Most marijuana users do not go on to use other drugs."

The Kaiser Permanente study "Marijuana Use and Mortality" April 1997 American Journal of Public Health". "Relatively few adverse clinical effects from the chronic use of marijuana have been documented in humans. However, the criminalization of marijuana use may itself be a health hazard, since it may expose the users to violence and criminal activity."

From the RAND Corporation's Drug policy Research Center:
( http://www.rand.org/multi/dprc/pubs/CP201.603/using_marijuana.html )

Using Marijuana May Not Increase the Risk of Hard Drug Use

"...researchers found that these associations can be accounted for by an alternative theory: Those who use drugs may have an underlying propensity to do so that is not specific to any one drug.

However, it is possible that any true marijuana gateway effects can explain only a tiny fraction of individuals' risk of hard drug use in comparison with the risk attributable to their propensities to use drugs. Moreover, it is possible that marijuana use could increase the risk of hard drug use for some youths while decreasing that risk for others, thus resulting in an insignificant effect from marijuana use on drug use when looking at the entire population of adolescents."


And there's no use arguing this one . . I can name names,

Here's some names, all pot smokers:

Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bing Crosby, Jennifer Aniston, Queen Victoria, Carl Sagan, Newt Gingrich, Montel Williams, Donna Shalala, Rodney Dangerfield, Bill Bradley, Margaret Mead, David Hockney, George Washington, Gary Hall, Louis Armstrong, Robert Altman, Frances McDormand, Diego Rivera, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Richard Feynman, Louisa May Alcott, Walker Evans, Willie Nelson, John Hay, Jack London, Larry Hagman, Bob Denver, Paul Bowles, Paul McCartney, Bob Marley, Daryl Hannah, Art Garfunkel, Chrissie Hynde, Robert Mitchum, Gene Krupa, William F. Buckley Jr., Michael Bloomberg
( http://www.veryimportantpotheads.com/main2.htm )


>>snip<< . . usually by about the 5th year, they have become very paranoid, with schitzophrenic tendencies . . . and then a typical long term abuser (of even alcohol, as well as other dependency creating drugs) will usually either have bouts of deep depression or become Bi-Polar . . . . . >>snip<<Gotta ask where you got this info, large - so far as I know, schizophrenia, major depression and bipolar disorder are not acquired conditions, but result from alterations in brain chemistry. Now if you want to argue that marijuana alters that chemistry in such a way as to produce psychiatric diseases, again I have to ask for your sources. Such a theory must also account for the absence of psychiatric illness in non-pot smokers, since human brains naturally produce cannabinoids, chemical relatives of the THC that causes the marijuan intoxication.

And you've overlooked some truly odious effects of the war on drugs - the decline of civil liberties and the corruption of law enforcement. If Sheriff Dan and his merry men raid your house and find evidence of dealing, e.g., a joint and a bathroom scale, they get to confiscate your house, its contents, and anything else they can argue was obtained as a result of profits from your "drug dealing". And there isn't much you can do about it, especially if you're eligible for the mandatory minimum sentence that's going to send you away for several years, no appeal allowed. Meanwhile, Sheriff Dan has held an auction to sell off your wordly goods and he gets to keep the cash.

However, if you're a good Republican and a critic of liberals, Democrats and other undesirables, you might get off with a stay in Rehab. Rush Limbaugh engaged in an ongoing criminal conspiracy to circumvent federal drugs laws by asking his housekeeper to help him obtain thousands of tablets of controlled narcotics in a few weeks, and so far he hasn't seen the inside of a cell.

Tommy Chong sold glass pipes over the Internet, caught the attention of John Ashcroft, and did 9 months in a Federal prison, even though his business was legal in the state in which he operated. .

Take care -

ZC

Hell To Pay
05-16-2005, 06:49 PM
Well surprise surprise. The forum pro-homos also engage in illegal drugs. Just another way they spread disease in our community.

Zen Curmudgeon
05-16-2005, 07:40 PM
Danged if I can control this infomania.

Wisconsin Congressman James Sensenbrenner, chair of the House Judiciary Committee, has a bill, HR 1528, heading out of committee for consideration. You can read the whole thing here,

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:1:./temp/~c109dMU1fl:e20363

but one of the truly amazing parts follows:

"SEC. 426.Whoever intentionally offers, solicits, entices, persuades, encourages, induces, or coerces a person enrolled in a drug treatment program or facility, or who is under a court order to enroll in, or who has previously been enrolled in, a drug treatment program or facility, to purchase, receive, or possess a controlled substance, or attempts or conspires to do so, shall, except to the extent that a greater minimum sentence is provided for, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment which may not be less than 5 years or more than life and if death or serious bodily injury resulted from the use of such substance shall not be less than 10 years or more than life."

So, if your teenager is at a Red Rocks show and offers a hit from a joint to a stranger sitting next to him, who happens to be drug rehab grad Rush Limbaugh, your kid is facing a minimum of 5 years in a federal penitentiary.

Somehow, this doesn't seem like the punishment fitting the crime, does it?

Take Care -

ZC

large
05-16-2005, 10:41 PM
And as for the list of names that has used pot, I can give you a longer list of those who died of ODs from using the whole damned gamut of the junk, not to mention about 18 of my former associates that lost their lives dealing . . I can show you Students and Artists, and Musicians who were full of promise and talent . . until they took up grass, because some a**hole told them "they'd be more creative" or "they'd enjoy the music more" or a litany of crap that got them started, but they quit their art or produced "Junk" from that point on . . because "High' was more important than their talent!

And 99% of those people I have known who used grass regularily, thought nothing of bolting down pills, snorting coke, or whatever was offered at the time . . 'shrooms even . . been there done that, buddy . . . I've been an artist for over 40 years . . the parade was a long one!

As far as Abuse causing depression, Bi-Polar personalities and other Mental Illness . . you betcha sweet a** it does . . and th' funny farm is full of them as well as the prisons . . . I have two in-law relatives who have serious drug related mental disorders, and as an artist, know many in my community . . .

And Hell yes, that sentence sounds pretty good . . It underlined the fact that it wasn't a "Little Illegal" . . IT WAS ILLEGAL, PERIOD! As I say, cut the demand, you'll cut the dealing!

And if you know so much about Dope and are for the decriminialization of it, can I suppose you're just another Pothead with a limited understanding of life, a bad case of the munchies and can't remember where you live?

In other words, you can't be taken seriously!

sweet_chin_music
05-17-2005, 12:20 AM
I don't smoke pot for two reasons...

#1- It's illegal
#2- It's unhealthy

With that said, I do support regulation for the legal sale of marijuana. Even if reason #1 was to change, I still wouldn't partake because of reason #2.

The gateway theory has been pretty much proved incorrect. If you tend to smoke marijuana alone, there is a good chance that the only other drug that is used by the user is alcohol or tobacco.

The problem comes when the drug use occurs in larger social circles. However, it's not the effect of the marijuana that leads to other drug use, it's the peer factor. Very few people smoke marijuana and crave a different form of high. It's when they are offered other drugs or see the effects of other drugs on others in their social circle that they experiment with newer drugs.

If you asked every crackhead if they have used marijuana, you would probably get a response of yes. Same for alcohol and tobacco. To those people, a high is a high and they will use whatever they can afford or find. But to assume that marijuana led them to use stronger drugs is a false result. More than likely, they were part of a social circle that condoned other drug use.

Ask an obese person if they have ever ate a Big Mac. What will the answer be? Then does this mean that Big Macs are a gateway to obesity? The logic behind the gateway myth is flawed. Because someone uses marijuana does not mean they will turn to smack or meth.

The "War on Drugs" is so highly touted, but in reality, has failed so hard. Stats show that drug use has basically maintained at the same level over the past 15 years while incarcerations have almost tripled for drug offenses. If this was a real war, would we continue pumping untold millions into the budget to see no real results? At least with Iraq, we can see the positive changes. With this war, we see nothing but people being incarcerated.

Colorado is suffering as a result of a poorly designed War on Drugs. How so? Look at the number of prisions that are being built to house inmates convicted of drug offenses. Now look at how much more money the prison system is sucking out of the state budget compared to how much money is being given to state colleges. Colorado ranks in the bottom 10% for higher education while our incarceration rate is higher than the national average. If only marijuana offenses were tossed out, we would see a decrease in inmate population of almost 25%.

The worst thing to come out of the War on Drugs is the "conspiracy" charge. Basically, you can be found guilty of conspiring to sell or traffic drugs even if the act never took place. The punishment for such an act? Possibly life without parole. How many people have been convicted of this so far and are serving life w/o parole? 2000. At an annual cost of $25K and an average term of 40 years. That's $2 BILLION dollars that we will spend to house these inmates. 180 more are added every year. In less than 10 more years, the total cost will exceed $25 BILLION.

I support law enforcement and the DEA in keeping dangerous drugs out of our children's hands and out of America, but something has to be done or the War on Drugs will bankrupt America before 2050. Stats show that the average cost for fighting this war will exceed almost $400 per person by the year 2030. That means a family of four will be taxed nearly $1600 just to fight a war that we haven't came close to winning a battle in.

Hell To Pay
05-17-2005, 12:28 AM
And you've overlooked some truly odious effects of the war on drugs - the decline of civil liberties and the corruption of law enforcement. If Sheriff Dan and his merry men raid your house and find evidence of dealing, e.g., a joint and a bathroom scale, they get to confiscate your house, its contents, and anything else they can argue was obtained as a result of profits from your "drug dealing". And there isn't much you can do about it, especially if you're eligible for the mandatory minimum sentence that's going to send you away for several years, no appeal allowed. Meanwhile, Sheriff Dan has held an auction to sell off your wordly goods and he gets to keep the cash.


ZC

I don't think our fine law enforcement officers in the Sheriff's Dept. would think to much of you unjustly accusing them of corruption in the Chieftain forum, especially when you are advocating breaking the law.

I'm sure the fine detectives they have could easily Google your blog email and find out who you are and where you live. (http://www.tapercities.com/ShakedownStreet/darsb/index.htm)

Lying, breaking the law, being stoned, and being stupid is no way to go through life.

sweet_chin_music
05-17-2005, 12:43 AM
And as for the list of names that has used pot, I can give you a longer list of those who died of ODs from using the whole damned gamut of the junk, not to mention about 18 of my former associates that lost their lives dealing

If you can Large, could you point out where even 1% of those who died as a result of OD'ing did so by smoking marijauna? By direct result, I mean someone OD'ing on it. Not cancer, not car accident, but someone who smoked so much that they dropped dead right there. Much like tobabcco, it will eventually cause lung cancer, but I'd be willing to bet that at least 50x more people die as a result of an alcohol overdose than those who OD on marijuana. I think the number of car accidents involving death via drunk driving is around 20x higher than accidents caused by marijuana.

Relating people who OD'd in a discussion about marijuana is a bit of a rabbit chase.


And 99% of those people I have known who used grass regularily, thought nothing of bolting down pills, snorting coke, or whatever was offered at the time . . 'shrooms even . . been there done that, buddy . . . I've been an artist for over 40 years . . the parade was a long one!

And did not most of these people become introduced to these harsher drugs via a social circle? In other words, they kept company with those who also used these harsher drugs? The average user who "tokes" with a buddy or two is less likely to experiment than a person who lights up with a larger circle of friends. Believe it or not, these small social circles are much more common than the guy who knows 15 people who uses and can call them up to party.


And if you know so much about Dope and are for the decriminialization of it, can I suppose you're just another Pothead with a limited understanding of life, a bad case of the munchies and can't remember where you live?

Since this statement could also be directed at me since I support legalization via regulation, the answer to all questions would be no. Never touched the stuff, but that doesn't mean I can't be informed about it.

Saying someone can't be taken seriously because they share an opinion that is different from yours is just casting the light of ignorance directly on yourself.

Hell To Pay
05-17-2005, 05:25 AM
And if you know so much about Dope and are for the decriminialization of it, can I suppose you're just another Pothead with a limited understanding of life, a bad case of the munchies and can't remember where you live?

In other words, you can't be taken seriously!

But wait! He's more than just a pothead! Check out this post (http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.music.gdead/browse_thread/thread/1500a22fb263ef42/efc10a382eef9e10?q=darsb1&rnum=6&hl=en#efc10a382eef9e10) he made on a deadhead newsgroup last month.

Friends dragged me to Iowa City in 1973 for a surprise 18th birthday
party/show. That was #1. The blotter was great, but I can't remember a
thing about the show.

large
05-17-2005, 07:50 AM
OK, They died of ODs because they were stupid . . . But the culture that they embraced is what killed them . . Marijuana is a part of that culture . .

I'm not going to get into the Bible spout situation or sit here and dig up columns of statistics, which all of us can find to support our individual arguments. The point is, I have lived around that culture for 40-55 years, my father was an Alcoholic, and in the process of growing up with that problem, everytime he and my mom decided he needed "Help" the whole family went off to "Drunk" school . . I should have a Master's or PHD in substance abuse . . . .

True, there are lots of people who, quite like social drinkers, will kick back socially with a torpedo and enjoy the group . . and leave it at that . . However, most Psychologists will affirm that somewhere around 50% of the population (a little more in Pueblo) are genetically predisposed to "Habitual Abuse" (Like the two in-laws I spoke of in another post) and given the exposure, whether it's alcohol, then grass, or starting in Middle school (common, now) they continue on into the drug culture . . . of abuse . . . and the ONLY time they cease is when they, themselves, decide they don't need it anymore . . all the education, halfway houses, and other money spent on abusers is money thrown in a hole! And currently, the social cost is frightening! Legalizing dope will not make the problem go away . . .

And While Zen talked of $800 Canuck Cannabis, first, I gotta say, to spend $800 on something to get "ripped" on has about as simple an explanation as you can get . . "That's God's way of telling you have wayyyy too much money!" . . . . Second, few if any citizens smoke $800 grass . . why should they? Because the "street" knows that $15 will get you a lot more torn up if you spend it on crack or meth . . . to most stoners, it's the high, not necessarily the method . . . . Wanna see your dope in action? Go to a big Biker deal . . . like Red River or Sturgis . . while It's not like it used to be (too many Yuppie bikers now) I'm sure you'll be impressed . . the underlying violence is unbelieveable, and it's mostly the culture and the dealing that makes it that way . . .

Yeah, you guys talk some good S***, but go out on the street, see what the users do and how they do it . . Get a whiff of reality once in a while and it'll do wonders for your outlooks . . .Social Yuppies whining about "Kinda Illegal" recreation . . go drink yer Merlot and crackers . . . Opine about your Mexican lawn boys . . . .

And incidentally the only thing said that might P*** me off is Zen's referral about me being a Republican . . That, sir (or madam) might get yer a** kicked! I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat and view both with the same disdain as I view Lawyers and Politicians . . . (I like Yuppies because they buy my art) I suppose I do tend to lean to the right now and then, but that's generally because common sense seems to be tilted in that direction! After all, isn't it you Liberals that invented Political correctness? (which is neither correct nor tolerant)

So that's my opinion and as you are entitled to yours, I am to mine . . and as I think that I have lived a lot closer to this in my lifetime (Your conversations don't really indicate much first hand knowledge) I have to assume I know at least as much about it as you who would criticize my opinions . . the guy asked a question, I gave my answer . . so get off my A**!

sweet_chin_music
05-17-2005, 08:39 AM
Yeah, you guys talk some good S***, but go out on the street, see what the users do and how they do it . . Get a whiff of reality once in a while and it'll do wonders for your outlooks . . .Social Yuppies whining about "Kinda Illegal" recreation . . go drink yer Merlot and crackers . . . Opine about your Mexican lawn boys . . . .



I'm a social yuppie? Nice. Thanks for the label.

As far as being out on the street, seeing users and understanding how the cycle works, I've been there. Part of my education was spending countless hours with people who have thrown their lives away. Even after that, my outlook is the same. Marijuana played little to no role in landing these people where they are today. The same can't be said for the most commonly abused drug...alcohol (which we all know, is legal through regulation.)

BTW, Merlot isn't really my bag. I'd rather have a pint of a good lager.


I suppose I do tend to lean to the right now and then, but that's generally because common sense seems to be tilted in that direction! After all, isn't it you Liberals that invented Political correctness? (which is neither correct nor tolerant)

I'm not sure if this is directed at me, but I'd hardly call myself a liberal. I don't lean left or lean right. I look at most things on a case by case basis and try to picture the long term results. If you were to take the 10 most talked about topics concerning politics and public policy, I'd probably agree with the left-leaning view 5 times and the right-leaning view 5 times. Not a very good liberal IMO.


So that's my opinion and as you are entitled to yours, I am to mine . . and as I think that I have lived a lot closer to this in my lifetime (Your conversations don't really indicate much first hand knowledge) I have to assume I know at least as much about it as you who would criticize my opinions . . the guy asked a question, I gave my answer . . so get off my A**!

Well, I don't recall "getting on your ***". I recall I asked if you could support your claim about OD'ing and the discussion of marijuana. Questioning another person about their opinion is hardly "getting on someone's ***". Did I ever say you were right or wrong? I just asked a few questions and shared my knowledge of the subject. I thought that was the purpose of public conversation and of these forums.

large
05-17-2005, 10:46 AM
TODAY . . what is the most commonly abused material in the seventh grade? Alcohol? Nope . . marijuana . . now I'm kinda dazzled by that one . . . but that's how far into our society this has gone . . kinda like sex . . that USED to be the biggest problem in middle schools, but now, sex is OK, and certain kinds of sex, like Oral, isn't even considered sex anymore by almost 50% of the kids polled. A lot of the younger Middle school kids that use Pot don't even know it's against the law . . they think it's another school rule, just like smoking tobacco!

With this kind of indoctrination, a lot of kids get their "Drug Culture Education" started very early . . and as it is in most other cases, once you do something that's just a "Little illegal' it ain't long before you're buying your dope with somebody else's possessions. I mean, hey, where's little Johnny gonna get the $800 for some good Canuck Grass? Or $15 for some cheap imported or backyard grown . . . Most parents don't provide enough "Allowance" to support avocational drug use . . . heh, heh . . . I get a student now and then, usually one, sometimes two, who chooses to "Mellow out" during "Break" . . there's two and a half hours of tuition wasted! Everyday . . then they whine about the teacher or instructor not doing his/her job . . . pretty hard to get through to a person that's off in another galaxy!

And these people aren't "Hard Core users", just "Potheads", but, they'll go through life, just getting by, because they really either don't care to suceed or would rather just "Get High" . . and if you are a Social worker, you might see them for what they really are, and you may not . . But they're mostly poor, intelligent people who depend on the system to get 'em by and they'll pay for their grass any way they can . . usually at someone else's expense.

You people refer to Marijuana as a "Gateway" drug . . actually it's not . . it's just another drug . . period. it's illegal to use, Illegal to sell . . I know of a family, fairly close, because I've gotten to watch, this woman, in her 40's now (time frame here) has been a drug abuser from the time she was 14, just about any and everthing she could buy and use, she has . . but, she always has a stash of grass, and she was really p***ed when her 12 year old son started stealing it from her where she kept it in the freezer, gonna kill 'im! Anyhow her son had his cousin smoking grass by the time he was 13 and the cousin has been through two rehabs for Cocaine abuse and now at 27 he's kind of figured life out . . pretty straight . . but during the years that he should have been getting an education, he was "Stoned"! a tragedy . . The cousin, he's still a stoner, most of the time looking for a job or someplace to sleep. The Mother . . Bi-Polar and taking drugs to ward off Schitzophrenia . . . and she has nothing . . your tax dollar takes care of her, hand to mouth . . . And if you want statistics, look me up, I'll introduce you to these fine examples of humanity . . and many more just like them!

Talk to the first response people, see how they see it . . . .

And as for Alcohol . . Probably just as bad, if not worse. Again, the havoc wrought upon society by alcohol abuse is terrible . . legalizing sale of it didn't change much . . . and that's all we did, legalize the sale of it. The Laws during Prohibition were pretty much the same as the laws governing drugs now . . a misdemeanor to use, a felony to sell . . . And while it made for some good plots for movies, as a deterrent, it didn't work worth a Damn!

But as a social drug, alcohol isn't quite the same as a drug . . even Mary Jane . . I can go to a social event, have two-three drinks over a 3-4 hour span of time and go home sober . . as a matter of fact, sober through the whole event. Ain't gonna happen with grass or any other drug . . yer "Stoned" from the git go . . or the drug wasn't any good! Now that has to be some kind of personality crutch, if one has to be "Stoned" to enjoy others or life . . . . So, I'd have to say, again, there is no such thing as a "Casual" drug user . . it's a dependency thing . . . . Just like alcoholics who come in all kinds of disguises and quantities, the only time any Alky will admit to being one is at an AA meeting . . the rest of the time, he's usually a "Causal or Social" drinker, who might "Over do" it sometimes.

And as for the Fallacy of "Educating and Rehabilitating" any abuser . . just like Sex Education for a pregnant 14 year old . . . She doesn't need Sex Education now, she needs Pre Natal Education . . . you have to educate "Pre use", it's a lot easier. And "Rehab"? . . the recidivism rate doesn't show a lot of promise for state sponsored Rehab programs . . . . same people on the same merry go round . . . .

These are YOUR problems as well as mine . . Solutions are a lot tougher than realization of the problem . . which most of you haven't gotten around to yet!

Steve M
05-17-2005, 02:17 PM
I do not do drugs. I haven't since one year prior to entering the Navy in 1987. However, I am deeply opposed to the drug war.

large
05-17-2005, 04:17 PM
And so you should be . . just like prohibition, it's not a crime to be a user, but it's a felony to be a dealer . . and as fast as they arrest the dealers, 2 more pop up to take their place . . just Like prohibition . . cops bust that Nova driving up I-25 every month so they can get more DEA money . . that's a con game . . .

It's supply and demand . . you have to affect the demand before you affect the supply!

Zen Curmudgeon
05-17-2005, 04:52 PM
And incidentally the only thing said that might P*** me off is Zen's referral about me being a Republican . . That, sir (or madam) might get yer a** kicked! Large, sorry about the ambiguous language. I wouldn't ask you about nor make assumptions concerning either your political affiliation or church membership. Neither are my business. It was intended only as a figure of speech.

Take Care -

ZC

Hell To Pay
05-17-2005, 05:52 PM
http://e.1asphost.com/garity/demo.gif

large
05-17-2005, 08:08 PM
Well you've figured out half the Equation, HTP, but what about the other side of the Aisle, they're not much better . . . Liars, cheats and theives . . an apt description of a politician . . !

Sorry to generalize, but what else can I say . . . ?

Zen Curmudgeon
05-17-2005, 08:24 PM
Well you've figured out half the Equation, HTP, but what about the other side of the Aisle, they're not much better . . . Liars, cheats and theives . . an apt description of a politician . . !When in doubt, turn to Mark Twain -

It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.
- Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar

Take Care -

ZC

Steve M
05-18-2005, 08:15 AM
Well you've figured out half the Equation, HTP, but what about the other side of the Aisle, they're not much better . . . Liars, cheats and theives . . an apt description of a politician . . !?

Agreed: The main difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is who gets the welfare check.

My motto is, and has been for over 10 years now: Vote third party or don't vote.

large
05-18-2005, 08:34 AM
Well, we've gotten severely off topic here, because neither Democrats nor Republicans have much to do with Pot or other drug use . . although, i'm sure there's somebody out there that can link it one way or another . . . . . Other than what Congress or the State Legislature does once in a while might call for some Chemical Behavior Modifier . . . 'Spose we could blame that on 'em!

But, amazingly, Fred Tripp asked a question on the thread about Pueblo's youth . . .

I REST MY CASE!

Steve M
05-18-2005, 02:24 PM
Well, we've gotten severely off topic here, because neither Democrats nor Republicans have much to do with Pot or other drug use . . although, i'm sure there's somebody out there that can link it one way or another

Republicans and Democrats are the architects of the war on drugs. They created and maintained this drug war, which will go down in history as one of the greatest law enforcement failures in the history of humanity.

large
05-19-2005, 07:05 AM
The quickest way to do away with "The War On Drugs" is to eliminate the demand! If nobody wants it, you won't have Dealers, Smugglers and the criminal enterprise that supports those things . . .

Unfortunately, the "Liberal" use laws enable drugs to be easier to obtain in a lot of cases than Alcohol, in the case of Students. (R. Macias, Dist. 60, today's Chieftain) So as I said before, quite like the laws during Prohibition, as long as the Users suffer no great penalties (other than ruined lives) and the dealers are dealt with as they are in todays judicial system, You will have drugs, easily obtainable. And probably the easiest to get, is, of course, Marijuana . . . . .

CountryFlowers
02-27-2010, 12:08 AM
topic locked