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BornInPueblo
09-04-2007, 11:37 PM
We have to all be getting very wary of products that are made in China. From contaminated wheat glutin in dog food, to mislabeled and misleading ingredient listings, to lead paints in toys, Chinese imports are becoming an increasingly worrisome product to Americans and much of the world. The Chinese are poisoning their own environment at a much faster pace than anyone else is on this planet and exporting poisoned and dangerous products to everyone else outside the country. Recently, and I think it was a Newsweek article a month or two ago, there was a story of a couple who tried to buy everything they needed over a years time, none of which was imported from China. The article stated that they had a profoundly and unexpectedly difficult time doing so. Either there existed no alternatives in some cases or the other choices were decidedly more expensive, making them a difficult choice.

If China does not fix the problems it faces soon, then the problem will be fixed for them. They cannot continue to poison their own population, its air and water supplies without suffering ever increasing health, economic, and political consequences. And when they export dangerous items that continually cause harm to the importers customers, they will eventually find the importers turning away from them to other sources. Eventually a company like Mattel will either need to turn to a safer and more dependable source in another country or find that their reputation is being irreparably harmed by continuing to deal with China as a source. Mattel is just a toy company, but the toys are being used by our children. The food, drug, and many other products from China affect all of us and our children. If they cannot eliminate a poisonous alcohol from their toothpastes, eliminate lead from childrens toys, etc., then why should they expect us to want anything they produce to come into our country? They can execute whoever they want to who was supposedly responsible for that area of expertise, but they aren't actually fixing the problems.

large
09-06-2007, 11:53 AM
Not taking China's side here, but does anyone up here have a clue about how much lead, and how many Mattel Barbie Dolls or Jeeps a kid would have to eat before they show ANY symptoms . . ? Gastric obstruction would come far before lead or arsenic poisoning could even begin to become symptomatic!

Are you aware that most Plastics have a far more toxic material in the compounds? It's called Isocyanates, and is used as a hardening compound to increase the durability and molding capabilities . . and even it's dry state, remains toxic . .

Far too many chicken littles out there with no facts, just fears . .

Zen Curmudgeon
09-06-2007, 06:24 PM
Not taking China's side here, but does anyone up here have a clue about how much lead, and how many Mattel Barbie Dolls or Jeeps a kid would have to eat before they show ANY symptoms . . ? Gastric obstruction would come far before lead or arsenic poisoning could even begin to become symptomatic!It's not that simple, of course. Very low blood levels have serious effects on growth and development, and even ingesting small quantities can be serious. For example (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5512a4.htm):


In mid-February 2006, a boy aged 4 years with a previous medical history of microcephaly and developmental delay was brought to a hospital pediatric emergency department in Minneapolis, Minnesota, with a chief complaint of vomiting. Probable viral gastroenteritis was diagnosed, and the boy was administered ondansetron, an antiemetic; his parents were encouraged to increase his fluid intake, and he was released. He returned to the emergency department 2 days later with intractable vomiting, poor oral intake, "sore tummy," and listlessness. He was dehydrated and had normal blood sodium and elevated blood urea nitrogen levels. He received intravenous fluid replacement and was admitted to the hospital.

The next day, about 10 hours after admission, the boy became agitated and combative and exhibited possible posturing. During transport to the radiology department, the boy suffered a respiratory arrest associated with seizure-type activity. He was resuscitated and placed on mechanical ventilation. He was administered a computer tomography (CT) scan of his head and of his chest and radiographs of his abdomen. The CT scan revealed diffuse cerebral edema, and the boy underwent emergent ventriculostomy and decompressive craniotomy. A heart-shaped object was observed on his abdominal radiographs but it was thought to be a radiopaque temperature probe on his body. When the radiographs were examined again, the object was recognized as a foreign body in his stomach, and testing for heavy metal levels was requested.

The next day, a BLL [Blood Lead Level] of 180 µg/dL was reported; cerebral blood flow studies indicated no flow to the brain, and the boy met clinical brain death criteria. On the fourth day of hospitalization, the child was removed from life support and died. Upon autopsy, a heart-shaped charm imprinted with "Reebok" was removed from the child's stomach. The mother recognized the object as a charm that came with a pair of shoes belonging to another child whose home her son had visited. The mother was not aware that her son had ingested the charm, and he had no history of ingesting nonfood substances. You'll note that no "gastric obstruction" was mentioned.

ZC

large
09-07-2007, 08:22 AM
Get up on the wrong side of your mat today?

You're really bitchy . . PMS or the real thing?

One example, thank yew . . and of course kids, because of their size, and metabolic rates, may magnify the problems with lead . . However, Millions and Millions of them grew up in the 20th century without dying of lead poisoning and it was in and on everything, as well as Asbestos . . Of course, looking back, we might say there were some who were made sick or died from Lead, Asbestos, Mercury, and other heavy metals we now recognize as "Toxic materials" . .

However, nursie boy . . That wasn't really the point I was making . . Obviously you haven't a clue about Isocyantic or Di-isocyantic hardeners used in almost all plastics and coatings today . . It is a chemical compound that in some forms could be considered a "Carcinogen" and in California, some have been declared as such . . However . . were the whole family of isocyanates to be declared as such, todays technology would come to a screeching halt . . and everything made of plastics and composites would have to be re-engineered and most of it would have to be replaced with the metals, glass and ceramics that it has replaced . .

Even in it's hardened form it retains a percentile of it's toxicity. Dust or particles from sanding or abrasion while being used creates a allergic reaction quite like acute asthma, and in many cases the second exposure leads to death or near death requiring heroic measures. This is especially true of aerosol particles in a wet application process. Even the skin and soft tissue can absorb isocyanates, and in some cases lead to liver failure and/or cancer . .

While most technologies using these materials attempt to inhibit any studies involving these hardeners, studies of citizens killed and injured in a leak incident in Bhopal, India, at the Union Carbide Chemical Plant, in the late 1980s, indicate that once "Sensitized" to the chemical, only a small amount of exposure may lead to death, and the victim has acquired a lifetime illness or injury. There, over 500 were killed almost immediately, another 1000 plus have died from causes associated with the incident and the still running estimate is that as many as 50,000 were injured, a large number for life.

Union Carbide has refused to admit what chemical they were processing and continue to insist that the plant produces Pesticides . .

To further illustrate the dangers of the manufacture and use of Isocyanates and their families, At this time,(or for the last 20 years) you cannot build or operate a manufacturing facility in the United States, because it cannot be built safely enough . .

Yet we use the product in nearly everything we touch daily . . if it's made of a synthetic, durable material or coated with same . .

Zen Curmudgeon
09-07-2007, 09:31 PM
One example, thank yew . . and of course kids, because of their size, and metabolic rates, may magnify the problems with lead . . However, Millions and Millions of them grew up in the 20th century without dying of lead poisoning and it was in and on everything, as well as Asbestos . . Of course, looking back, we might say there were some who were made sick or died from Lead, Asbestos, Mercury, and other heavy metals we now recognize as "Toxic materials" . .Let's take this slowly, so as not to confuse you.

Your challenge was simple:


does anyone up here have a clue about how much lead, and how many Mattel Barbie Dolls or Jeeps a kid would have to eat before they show ANY symptoms My example answered that question. The answer is 1 - and the "symptoms" were apparent: "intractable vomiting, poor oral intake, 'sore tummy,' and listlessness" not to mention the child died.

Next, you claim, "Millions and Millions of them grew up in the 20th century without dying of lead poisoning". The subtle danger of lead poisoning isn't death, although I should point out that tests for blood lead levels weren't available for most of the 20th century, but damage to the growing child leading to neurological damage and mental retardation. Your dismissal of that risk is not supported by the science.

So when you trivialize the real dangers of lead in toys, yeah, I do get a little pissed. Just because you, in your ignorance, do not accept the reality doesn't mean that contaminated toys aren't at this moment causing brain damage in a toddler down the street. For what it's worth, you may want to consider that Mattel, the US and Chinese governments take this seriously. Could be they all know something you don't, or, at least, something you won't even trouble yourself to learn about.

ZC

BornInPueblo
09-07-2007, 10:20 PM
However, Millions and Millions of them grew up in the 20th century without dying of lead poisoning and it was in and on everything, as well as Asbestos . . Of course, looking back, we might say there were some who were made sick or died from Lead, Asbestos, Mercury, and other heavy metals we now recognize as "Toxic materials" . .

You are so right, Large. Except for those who died, we all survived from cars without seatbelts, airbags, crash absorbing car frames, and child safety seats during most of the twentieth century, too. Except for those who died, the Japanese all survived two atomic bombs during WWII. And let's not forget that some of those survivors from the car crashes and atomic bomb drops got to live on badly maimed and/or paralyzed, but that's okay. The govmint is reglating all the fun outta our lives. Tham thar peepel shud keep thar noses from whar they don't belong.

large
09-08-2007, 08:52 AM
OHFERCHRISSAKE! Does either of you Idiots have a clue about what you pass on the freeway or what goes through your town everyday in freight trains?

The Health and Safety laws against Lead use in coatings was originated, quite like the smoking bans, for the safety of the worker, and lead poisoning of children was a secondary consideration . . and while lead digestion is a problem with children, it's NEVER been a big one . . Very similar to the "Friable Asbestos" issues, which have been declared carcinogens even though science has since disputed it to be so . . In the human body, need I remind Bedpan Boy, who is supposed to have a Medical Degree of some sort, Heavy metals are "Cumulative" and we all carry certain amounts of them around, simply because we are exposed to them daily. Some people's metabolisms tolerate (or don't) these toxins better than others. Children are, of course, more sensitive to any toxin because of size and metabolic speed. What a 200 pound adult may tolerate might kill a small child . . of course, to err on the side of safety is important.

But, on the other side of the coin, can anybody point to anyone who was "Saved" from lead poisoning since the ban was enacted? Not really, because nobody ever kept reliable statistics on those who died directly from "Lead poisoning" until sometime after 1949, and then in many cases, the statistics were based upon illness contracted by longtime workers in industry who used lead based materials of one kind or another . . Especially in the Coatings area, lead being a main pigment in paint from about 1885 and since aerosol applications of coatings began in 1929, and most lead based coatings began to be used commercially a few years after that, a base for study wasn't really that large. So in the 1960's Medical Science and the Bar Association killed a bunch of rats . . and said; "Damn! Lead might kill you over a long period of time if exposed to enough of it . . good enough, let's go to court!" Very similar to the tobacco trials of the late '80's.

However . . Back to the "Chicken Little" syndrome . . You both have a severe case of it and it could be fatal . . Take a pill . .

Forty thousand people still die in car wrecks every year, and as safe as cars are supposed to be, if you're belted into a 2200 lb Mobile Pinata and a Drunk in a Chevy Suburban runs over you, you're probably dead . . howcome? Well, in the name of economy and fuel mileage you got in a tin can that isn't made to crash . . Oferchrissake, let's outlaw both Suburbans and tin cans! . . Because that's a major cause of 40 thousand people getting killed each year . . And whatever you do, don't attempt to educate the drivers, because, obviously they're not a part of the cause . . Kinda like a toy in a kid's mouth . . tell the little Ba$tard to spit it out and don't put things in his mouth . . back to your "Population" thingie, survival of the fittest, cull the herd . .

Sidenote here, kinda funny to worry on one page about "Overpopulation" in this country, and then bloviate on another about "Saving the stupid" . .

And Back to the first thing said here . . Wanna get excited about Toxic crap? Start looking at what goes up and down the interstate and the railroad rails everyday. I have a couple of friends who are firemen, one a chief, another an assistant chief . . and they'll tell you, only half jokingly, that their major equipment for assessing trainwrecks are a pair of Binoculars and a pair of running shoes . . Get close enough to look the wreck over with the Binoculars and if things don't look too good from there, "Run Like Hell !"

Learn to read those "Diamonds" on the side of the next Semi Trailer(s) you pass on the freeway . . some of them should scare the hell out of you, and if that isn't bad enough, some of them without "Diamonds" are carrying stuff that'd level a city block, given the right conditions . . But, you pansies can't outlaw any of it because the cost of getting your bread and milk would go through the ceiling also . . You want regulation of anything considered remotely unsafe, by the media, instead applying common sense . .

Now this is plain dumb . . Japanese who died in the two A-Bomb attacks on Japan? Shouldn't have listened to their Emperor . . That's pretty simple . . Lesson there? Don't jack with someone who has a Bigger Gun . . Better them than us . . Culling the herd again . .

As for the toys made in China with lead based enamels (probably with iso-cyanatic hardeners also, but of course that's OK), one, you don't have to buy a damned thing made in China, and two, tell that brat to spit it out and don't put it in his/her mouth . . it's a TOY, not a lollipop! Be a parent, not some whiny semi adult who doesn't want to assume any of the responsibility for raising and protecting their own kids . .

It's called EDJUKAYSHUN . . get some or learn to live (or die) without it . . The government can only protect the stupid from themselves to a degree, and then freedom of choice begins to be stifled . .

Just so you'll know, both of you, I was involved in HAZMAT Remediation as a Project Manager, for many years. . . Most of the projects we were involved in Western Colorado, Utah and Nevada involved Radiation and Heavy Metals, been to a whole bunch of schools, got a bunch of important looking diplomas and licenses, so apparently the same government you think knows what's OK, thinks . . I'm OK . .

Zen Curmudgeon
09-11-2007, 10:30 PM
It's called EDJUKAYSHUN . . get some or learn to live (or die) without it . . The government can only protect the stupid from themselves to a degree, and then freedom of choice begins to be stifled . . .Damn me. . . . how could I have possibly thought someone not ABL [Approved by Large] could understand the effects of lead-based paint on children the CDC had (for political or stupid reasons) found to be AT RISK FOR BRAIN DAMAGE ?

Allow me to be a little profane:

Who the **** do you think you are, large? Since when are you willing to contradict people who study this for a living? At best, you are a high grade auto body paint artist. How does this give any normal people, concerned about the health and well-being of their kids, a reason to think your opinions make a a damn difference?

If your snotty references to "EDJUKAYSHUN" are any indication, you seem more concerned with being right than being correct.

**** You, Large - you need to win an argument. Whether this is a good thing for human beings involved is apparently out of your range.

What a sad ******* you turned out to be.

ZC

BornInPueblo
09-12-2007, 07:47 AM
Zen, I'm glad you finally realized this guy is way past having an intelligent conversation with and I believe you are correct in saying all he wants to do is win the argument, even though he really has not obviously done so. His little world consists of making himself LARGE and everone else small. If he truly is an "artist" who airbrushes designs on cars, trucks, and vans, I have to laugh at him giving himself credit for being an artist. His argument here consists of using an OSHA warning about a chemical he works with almost everytime he uses the chemicals of his trade and is not recognized as a similar hazard after it has dried or been solidified, unless it is either particalized by sanding or burned. It is not even close to being as dangerous to peoples' health as lead, asbestos, or other chemicals that recognized public health agencies have declared and recognized as being dangerous to us in our daily lives. It is much more a health hazard to those who use it in their occupations and they do need to take special precautions to protect themselves. Additionally, the chemical is not used in all plastic products. It is mainly used in polyurethane and foam products.

LARGE is so full of himself, that I'll just bet he can extact enough of his own bull**** into his toilet to break the porcelain below and lord over it saying "Man, oh man, I'm proud of that one!"

Is it any wonder that if we show any concern about real hazards to our kids and grandkids or anything else, he will call us "Chicken littles," and use an occupational hazard he has chosen to be exposed to as being much more important?

large
09-12-2007, 07:56 AM
Aw jeez, I made the poor nursie cry and cuss . .

Hey, Sport, as I said, I've been involved in HAZMAT, and have the Resume to support it. I'm also a working and accepted artist, a teacher, as well as a former planner and Architectural designer . . so, while I never flunked out of a theological (teaching and selling blue sky) College, I've done quite a few things, made a good living at all of them, and have to say my experience is at least equal if not better than yours . .

As for the little children and the exposure to Lead . . It's a minimal problem and always has been. Asbestos is another, quite like it . . and all toxins affect children's metabolisms sooner than they would an adult as has been explained . . My point was, and still is, technology is hiding a far worse toxin throughout contemporary technology, and you, the self proclaimed Internet Expert on health issues, don't have a clue . . But then, I don't think you have much of a clue. And your wit, sometimes enjoyable, has gotten to be about half of what it used to be . .

You belittle someone for not thinking and echoing someone else's thoughts (in another thread) but your forte is posting some inane editorial by AP or some other news source and then criticizing others who would comment on it, no matter their view . . Your days are seemingly spent studying dumb sh*t on Wikkkkiippeddia . . your apparent only source unless directed to others . . You seldom, actually have a real opinion or solution, quite like the politicians you apparently revere . .

Well, Chum, as I always say . . If it really bothers you that bad, I don't hide behind a phony name . . I'm pretty easy to find and we can discuss it personally . . But I really think, because of your past comments, you're that white on the top of the pile, and quite like my dog Rover, you can dish it out but you can't take it . .

BornInPueblo
09-12-2007, 07:57 AM
Zen, I'm glad you finally realized this guy is way past having an intelligent conversation with and I believe you are correct in saying all he wants to do is win the argument, even though he really has not obviously done so. His little world consists of making himself LARGE and everone else small. If he truly is an "artist" who airbrushes designs on cars, trucks, and vans, I have to laugh at him giving himself credit for being an artist. His argument here consists of using an OSHA warning about a chemical he works with almost everytime he uses the chemicals of his trade and is not recognized as a similar hazard after it has dried or been solidified, unless it is either particalized by sanding or burned. It is not even close to being as dangerous to peoples' health as lead, asbestos, or other chemicals that recognized public health agencies have declared and recognized as being dangerous to us in our daily lives. It is much more a health hazard to those who use it in their occupations and they do need to take special precautions to protect themselves. Additionally, the chemical is not used in all plastic products. It is mainly used in polyurethane and foam products.

LARGE is so full of himself, that I'll just bet he can extact enough of his own bull**** into his toilet to break the porcelain below and lord over it saying "Man, oh man, I'm proud of that one!"

Is it any wonder that if we show any concern about real hazards to our kids and grandkids or anything else, he will call us "Chicken littles," and use an occupational hazard he has chosen to be exposed to as being much more important?

large
09-12-2007, 09:57 AM
Another rocket scientist heard from . .

Aren't you the guy advocating "Population Control" on another thread . . ?

Of course you are . . but you then you want to complain about something you, yourself, might have some control over . .

First, let me quote your ignorance . .
Additionally, the chemical is not used in all plastic products. It is mainly used in polyurethane and foam products.

Isocyanates, Di-isocyanates, and their related Cyanatic compounds are used to harden nearly all plastics and plastic coatings, which are generally Urethane based. Everything from those shiny lexan headlight lenses on your car to the housing of your cell phone . . and damned near everything in between . . And as odd as it might sound, the compound is also used as a "Flex Agent" in many plastics applications (foam, as an example) to extend the life of flexible plastics and even in some organic coatings . .

And, while it's very true that workers using or manufacturing items using these compounds should (and in most cases do) wear protective clothing and breathing devices, the end user is hardly ever aware of any of the hazards . . and quite unlike heavy metals, the cumulative toxin levels in the human have yet to be established. Two specific compounds have been declared as Carcinogens by the State of California, but because of continued modification and changes to the base compound and it's vehicles, long term studies of it's effects cannot keep up.

As far as working with it, again, your ignorance and elitist attitude is showing. Were it not for those who work in those industries, you wouldn't have any of your ego stretching bull$hit to show off to people and actually might even starve to death . .

And lets go with another of your ignorant and elitist statements . .
If he truly is an "artist" who airbrushes designs on cars, trucks, and vans, I have to laugh at him giving himself credit for being an artist.

Couple of things on that . . First, I hold a Colorado State Teaching Certificate as an ART TEACHER . . I don't have to claim to be an artist, the state says I am . . Secondly, in a complex I was a part of the Architectural Design Team of, I have Sculpture, as part of the Complex, there permanently, and have had TWO Gallery Shows as the featured artist . . as well as gallery openings and shows in such places as The Pro Rodeo Hall of Fame, charlotte jackson/Santa Fe and several other galleries, both local and in New Mexico . . Two Custom Cars I have designed have been SEMA Show centerpieces . . another will be this year, as well as two other will be present in other show venues . . Pinstriping, Airbrush Art, and associated art techniques is only one of many Art venues I pursue . . But I am thought well of by my Auto Artist Peers nationally . . and have been featured in a couple of their National magazines.

My background in Architecture has enabled me to work in the Construction Field as upper management where I was obliged to learn HAZMAT remediation and reconstruction . . If you're not an expert, then you don't have a job . .

Here's another Bone, fido . . I worked in Middle Management of Haliburton for a while as a "Plant Engineer" in one of their large Fab shops . . . .

What's your expertise? Selling pencils? It's obviously not as an "Art Critic" . . Because you obviously wouldn't know an artist from a roofer . .

As far as working with toxic materials, I have had the privilege of teaching the use of them at a College Level, and at every step, advocated both the protection required and demanded that it be used . . as well as advocating that in any form, liquid, solid, powder, new, or old, the material is toxic in any amount, because we absolutely don't know, yet, what the cumulative limits are . . Lead, as has been said before, might kill an adult in twenty years. Isocyanates, once the human body has become sensitized, might only take twenty minutes . . and again, this is based upon an adult metabolism . . And quite like Heavy metals, remains in the compound for it's whole life, waiting to become airborne by sanding or abrading in any form . .

It's also obvious you have done NO background searches on toxicity and carcinogenic effects from the myriad of Iso's and their derivatives . . You are only interested about old ghosts you think you know (and the Media exploits) and totally ignorant of the new, bigger and badder ghosts that you not only know nothing about, but apparently don't want to hear about . . not to mention your doglike ability to pile on . . That and jumping to conclusions . .

Wanna get civil, or are you gonna get profane and cry like your detractive buddy?

BornInPueblo
09-12-2007, 02:05 PM
Large says: “Another rocket scientist heard from . .

Aren't you the guy advocating "Population Control" on another thread . . ?

Of course you are . . but you then you want to complain about something you, yourself, might have some control over . .

First, let me quote your ignorance . .
Quote:
Additionally, the chemical is not used in all plastic products. It is mainly used in polyurethane and foam products.


No, I’m not advocating “Population Control” on another thread, I am making an inquiry into it, because sometime in the future it will have to be addressed. The time may not be now, but it will be forced on us at some time in the future and I’d like to hear some ideas about how to address those issues.

I’m not complaining about something I have any control over, you are using it to make your living or so called artist life on. Quit using it and find a suitable substitute for it, since it is of such concern to you. We all know that we have to live our lives taking chances when we drive on the roads and highways, bike down bike pathways, hike and camp in the mountains, and with products that are hazardous to us in one way or another, yet you choose to highlight this one chemical as if it were more of a consumer concern than an occupational concern. And you are left wanting to dismiss the greater concern over already realized hazards to our children that have been recognized to be adversely affecting them, while highlighting one that is mainly of immediate concern to your own use. If your chemical is guilty of such atrocities, then I have no doubt that it will be eventually placed on the list of chemicals we find hazardous to our children or even to us. Just as was entered by an earlier post, no one knew that lead was such a dangerous substance that could affect children or even adults until scientific medical evidence proved it to be so.

Further you state: “And, while it's very true that workers using or manufacturing items using these compounds should (and in most cases do) wear protective clothing and breathing devices, the end user is hardly ever aware of any of the hazards . . and quite unlike heavy metals, the cumulative toxin levels in the human have yet to be established. Two specific compounds have been declared as Carcinogens by the State of California, but because of continued modification and changes to the base compound and it's vehicles, long term studies of it's effects cannot keep up.”

The end user is hardly ever aware of the hazards because they have become almost non-existent in the manner that the end user will use them. Yep, surely there are hazards presented to them by these products, but how many end users of these plastic products are going to grind them up or burn them? Most of the end users are going to use the product for its intended purpose and throw them into the trash can. It’s one thing to declare a compound a carcinogen and another thing to insist that it should be banned when it is not in anyway ingested or otherwise enters the human body.

It doesn’t really matter to me if you have some special artistic talents and recognition, no matter whether justified or not. That doesn’t make you any less culpable for being an ******* or more of an authority on any subject, including art. I don’t like you and have not liked you from the very first ridiculous post I read of yours to this last one you have written. You are not an expert on any subject and neither am I, but I do know who is being the braggart and claiming to be the ultimate authority.

I have always been civil, but you?

large
09-12-2007, 03:08 PM
Actually, you haven't . . And try this . . you're another whiny liberal crybaby who expects the government to solve all your problems . . keep your kids safe and fed . . Dipstick, that's YOUR JOB!

And as far as Worker safety and Isocyanates and it's derivitives, it's one of my continuing jobs to make people who might become exposed to these chemicals, aware . . and how to work WITH them. I also have a teaching certificate to do that . . No brag, just fact . . And I AM AN EXPERT! I've been paid to be exactly that!

And as far as liking me . . I couldn't care less . . Braggart? What's the matter, girlie boy? I gave you the part of my resume that assures me of the title "Artist" . . As I said, look me up, I'll back up anything I've said I can do. Including some neat Sh*t I haven't talked about . . A "Tour" if you will . .

Talk's certainly cheap when you are hiding behind a fake name . . and is there any real reason I should suddenly sprout an affinity for you and your whiny opinions . . or complaints . . ? As I said, I'm not too tolerant of stupid . .