View Full Version : Baptists Behaving Badly

Zen Curmudgeon
05-06-2005, 02:14 PM
This one is a little hard to understand, especially the "not politically motivated" part.


Religion and politics clash over a local church's declaration that Democrats are not welcome.

East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.

(posted at 7:30am, 5/6/05)

So, evil Satan is a Democrat and good God is a Republican? What does that make registered independents, part of the axis of naughty? :)

Take Care -


Zen Curmudgeon
05-09-2005, 02:27 PM
The thing about a 24/7 news cycle is that eventually everything gets reported.

The Rev. Chan Chandler (the pastor so nice they named him twice) went to church Sunday with his lawyer, who issued a statement saying this was all a "big misunderstanding". But an audio tape of the reverend's sermon last October seems pretty clear, "If you vote for John Kerry this year you need to repent or resign. You have been holding back God's church way too long. And I know I may get in trouble for saying that, but just pour it on. " (CNN)

Evidently the "just pour it on" was a figure of speech, as witness the backpedaling the Rev's been doing since last week.

Or perhaps there's another motive: the money.

Churches are tax exempt institutions provided they follow a few simple rules. From the IRS guidebook (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf) :

All IRC section 501(c)(3) organizations, including churches
and religious organizations, must abide by certain rules:
■ their net earnings may not inure to any private
shareholder or individual,
■ they must not provide a substantial benefit to private
■ they must not devote a substantial part of their
activities to attempting to influence legislation,
■ they must not participate in, or intervene in, any
political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to)
any candidate for public office, and
■ the organizationís purposes and activities may not
be illegal or violate fundamental public policy.

By making such bald political statements and using spiritual coercion, the Rev. Chandler may have cost his church its tax exempt status.

The next question is obvious: will the IRS actually take notice and enforce its own rules?

Take Care -


Zen Curmudgeon
05-11-2005, 05:03 AM
Mr. Chandler's lawyer, John J. Pavey Jr., said his client had not apologized for anything he said and would continue to speak out against abortion. He said the dispute had nothing to do with politics.
Mr. Chandler's resignation, at a meeting open only to members of the congregation, came a day after a national group that lobbies for church-state separation urged the Internal Revenue Service to investigate the tax-exempt status of the church.

I.R.S. rules bar clear-cut politicking by tax-exempt groups. In October, days before Mr. Bush won a second term, the agency said it was investigating roughly 60 charities and other tax-exempt groups - about a third of them churches - for potentially breaking rules that bar them from political activity.

And now, according to the article, the preacher's message was anti-abortion, not anti-Kerry. Huh? This is the first time I've heard the A word used in this contretemps.

Oh well, at least this tempestuous teacup will fade from the news. But I wonder if Chan Chandler will resurrect himself later on, perhaps as a pro-life crusader.

Take Care -


05-25-2005, 11:24 AM
Excellent info. This IRS Code also applies to others who overstep the bounds - Focus on the Family. I just used your Code reference in an email to John Salazar.

Nothing gets cooked without pot stirring . . .


Zen Curmudgeon
06-14-2005, 07:37 PM

His church was bombed, and now he protests funerals of the war dead

Kansas preacher says he's coming to Idaho

Tuesday, June 14, 2005


BOISE, Idaho -- A Kansas preacher and gay rights foe whose congregation is protesting military funerals around the country said he's coming to Idaho tomorrow to picket the memorial for an Idaho National Guard soldier killed in Iraq.

A flier on the Web site of Pastor Fred Phelps' Westboro Baptist Church (http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/) claims God killed Cpl. Carrie French with an improvised explosive device in retaliation against the United States for a bombing at Phelps' church six years ago.

...Phelps said the fact that French led an all-American life gives him all the more reason to picket her final public tribute.

"An all-American girl from a society of all-American heretics," he said.

"Our attitude toward what's happening with the war is the Lord is punishing this evil nation for abandoning all moral imperatives that are worth a dime," Phelps said.

Pastor Phelps, a graduate of Bob Jones University, titles these little events "Love Crusades". The section of the web page listing events protesting the funerals of KIA troops is called "Thank God for IEDs (Improvised Explosive Devices)".

(That deafening silence is Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh and Dick Cheney not attacking Pastor Phelps for a failure to "support our troops". )

Take care -


06-16-2005, 11:57 PM
God bless the extremists (both right and left wings) for they give each side the ability to generalize, box-up and condemn.

Fun, fun!

:) - Hey, at least it made sense in MY mind - :)

Zen Curmudgeon
08-22-2005, 03:56 PM
As my grandpappy used to say, "Never piss off the Christians - they'll kill you." Or, in this case, at least decide murder is a viable option.

You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he (Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez) thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war.

...We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with.

Rev. Pat Robertson, the 700 Club, 8/22/05

By the way, before we send the hitman in, could we find out how Venezuela keeps its gas prices at $0.12 a gallon?

Take Care -


Zen Curmudgeon
08-24-2005, 10:11 PM
Evangelist backs off Chavez assassination call
Aug 24 12:51 PM US/Eastern

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Conservative U.S. evangelist Pat Robertson, who called for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, said on Wednesday he was misinterpreted and there were a number of ways to "take him out" including kidnapping.

"I said our special forces could take him out. Take him out could be a number of things including kidnapping," Robertson said on his "The 700 Club" television program.

"There are a number of ways of taking out a dictator from power besides killing him. I was misinterpreted," Robertson added.

I forgot there isn't a Commandment against kidnapping.

Isn't there a mandatory retirement age for televangelists?

Shouldn't there be at least an annual physical? A mental exam (we do that for air traffic controllers...)?

Maybe the Dobson militia, the Xian Coalition or the Family Research Council should say they are pro 10 Commandments ["Though Shalt Not Kill"] and agin murder [as Southern Baptist Pat seems to favor for Catholics he has frustration over]. Is Al Mohler weighing in on this?

How can these folks forgive each other, and shouldn't they share those secrets with us mortals?

Take Care -

08-25-2005, 07:05 AM
This is what happens when you have government pandering to the Religious (or those who portend to be so)

Or for that matter the opposite occurs when the government panders to the far left . .

One, you get lessons on morality (whether you want them or not) . . the other, there is no morality . .

Zen Curmudgeon
10-10-2005, 08:17 PM

Coalition leader faces sex abuse allegations

Sunday, October 09, 2005

Law enforcement officials said Saturday they are investigating complaints that Louis Beres, longtime chairman of the Christian Coalition of Oregon, molested three female family members when they were pre-teens.

"There is an investigation of allegations that have been made," Multnomah County District Attorney Michael Schrunk said Saturday.

...Beres, 70, whose group champions socially conservative candidates and causes, confirmed he is under investigation for alleged molestation. He blamed "personal and political enemies" for the reports and said, "I never molested anybody."

Mr. Beres does respond via his organization's website.


Statement by Lou Beres On Allegations Published in the Oct. 9th Oregonian
October 10, 2005

While I am grieved by the false allegations of my nephew, Richard Galat, I am attempting to determine the source of each claim. Once I learn who has made an allegation I will pursue the Biblical response and do all within my power to reconcile with that person.

Sorta sounds ominous to me. I admit it's been quite a while since this non-Christian perused the Gideon Bible during snowed-in days in Nebraska motels, but I do recall that "The Biblical response" includes forgiving your "personal and political enemies" as well as the old "eye for an eye" response. I wonder which one Mr. Beres means?

Take Care -


10-11-2005, 07:28 AM
Don't forget, god is a good christian Republican....

My guess is "eye for an eye".

10-11-2005, 09:56 AM
But that's only what the Christian Republicans say . . . . . Heh, heh . . .

Didja ever notice, when politics and God get mixed, it's always the "Religion" that gets Skewed?