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SafeLibraries
07-03-2007, 05:40 AM
"'Intellectual freedom is a big issue for libraries,' she added. 'Number 5 on the American Library Associationís Library Bill of Rights is: A person's right to use a library should not be denied or abridged because of origin, age, background or views.'"

This is the excuse used to defy community standards and apply the standards of Chicago's American Library Association [ALA] in Pueblo, CO.

Thanks to ALA propaganda about how it is a violation of "intellectual freedom" to keep sexually inappropriate information away from children, Midori Clark, the district's community relations director, has decided to represent the ALA instead of the "community." Let's call her Midori Clark, the district's ALA relations director, shall we?

She has decided to adhere to ALA standards, not community standards, so now all videos will be allowed to all children. This change in policy implements ALA policy in Pueblo, CO public libraries.

The ALA believes it is age discrimination to keep children from seeing porn. Apparently, so does Midori Clark. But, is this what the Pueblo, CO community believes? I doubt it.

And another community falls under the sway of the ALA, further endangering more children. Shame.

Free view: No charge for library movies
By JOHN NORTON
THE PUEBLO CHIEFTAIN
http://www.chieftain.com/metro/1183442637/5

Zen Curmudgeon
07-03-2007, 05:55 AM
Not one to let facts (or lack thereof) get in the way of a rant, are you?

Tell me, how many of the "28,000 titles" stocked by the library are "porn"?

Show me where the article you cite contains the word "porn"?

ZC

SafeLibraries
07-03-2007, 08:04 PM
Not one to let facts (or lack thereof) get in the way of a rant, are you?

Can we all just get along? Is there a need for you to go to an instant attack? Is your counter argument that weak?

Had you asked politely, you might have said something like what makes you think it's porn? To which I would have responded that I was just using that word as a convenience.

Porn is really not the issue, and you are right about that. The issue is sexually inappropriate material for children generally, but specifically the specific definitions or descriptions used in the legal cases holding children may legally be separated from such material.

So you see, with all that longwindedness, that is why I choose to use the single word "porn," just as a convenience for me as the writer and for you as the reader.

Can we be friends now?

Zen Curmudgeon
07-04-2007, 10:04 AM
Can we all just get along? Is there a need for you to go to an instant attack? Is your counter argument that weak?

Had you asked politely, you might have said something like what makes you think it's porn? To which I would have responded that I was just using that word as a convenience.There's no counter argument, Sparky, no instant attack, there's just a question:


Tell me, how many of the "28,000 titles" stocked by the library are "porn"?

Seems like a "polite" question to me, but I'm not the one being challenged to back up an irrational screed with something like a fact. "Using that word as a convenience" is no more than the rhetorical equivalent of bait-and-switch, and thus inherently dishonest. While this may work for discussions at about the talk-radio level, it fails to persuade.

ZC

SafeLibraries
07-04-2007, 10:35 AM
Ah, I see you do not stop your atacks. Well, I'll answer politely just the same.

Since I used the word "porn" merely as a convenience, it not be possible to number which of the 28,000 are "porn." But doing so is irrelevant; if the rule was relaxed, it must have been for a reason, no? And does it make a difference if it's one or ten or twenty or a hundred?

Further, my definition is totally irrelevant -- the point is the community's definition, which they must have had if they used to prevent such practices until the library "trustees" decided to chuck that aside and follow ALA standards instead.

That's the point. The community in Pueblo should have what the community wants, not what is forced upon them by the elite few in charge of applying ALA policy to the entire community's public resource, namely, the library.

When I asked a trustee in Pueblo if the community was asked if it wanted this change, I was told no--they could read it in the paper and complain if they want. So who is this "trustee" acting on behalf of, the community or the ALA? Aren't the "beneficiaries" supposed to be the taxpaying community, not the ALA? Are the "trustees" abrogating their duties to their beneficiaries by explicitly applying ALA rules and jettisoning community rules? Where the "trustees" abrogate their duties, cannot the government step in to ensure community standards are being followed instead of ALA policy? Will further personal attacks against me make these issues go away?

User No Longer With Us
07-12-2007, 11:17 AM
1. Shouldn't it be up to parents to decide what is considered sexually explicit for their children? After all, the children do belong to their parents.

2. Shouldn't it be a parent's responsibility to monitor their children, even in a library?

3. Most libraries have a children's library separate from the adult area. I don't suppose that the children's area would be stocked with sexually explicit materials, anyway. Am I correct on this?

4. For older children who prefer the adult area, they should be monitored by their parents.

5. Howsabout if a library were to have a separate section for what is deemed sexually explicit, and no one under the age of 18 or 21 is allowed in there? Yes, this means they'd have to be carded with their State ID or Driver's licence, but wouldn't it be worth it to keep freedom of the press and give people like you one less thing to complain about?

I think it's best, when identifying a problem, to identify why it's a problem then offer a possible solution. Ranting and attacking Zen won't get you very far.

My suggestion to you would be to contact the local library board in your area and propose an "adult" section for the materials that are considered as questionable and of an adult nature. Before making such a proposition, outline the problem neatly and professionally, and perhaps give a few parameters, such as carding people with their ID's before letting them in. Another parameter idea might be to have an electronic door that works on a buzzer, so that when the librarian or security guard, whomever the library chooses to do the checking, checks the party's ID, they can "buzz" the person in.

You might get a positive response, especially if you offer some fundraising ideas.

If you happen to know any wealthy people who are friends of the library, you might want to approach them first about a possible donation to get the ball rolling, and the library can raise the rest of the funds necessary should it decide to go with your idea.

This way everybody wins and you've done something wonderful for your community, and thus have become a leader and a hero in the process.

Loren Swelk
07-14-2007, 09:32 PM
It appears that SafeLibraries has just "filled in the blanks" as to Pueblo, CO and Midori Clark. Thanks for just passing through our forum, dropping a venal attack on our library, and moving on, why don't you try Craigslist for your rant? It is a better venue for a one track mind.