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Thread: D-60 Schools Closing?

  1. #21
    Forum Royalty large's Avatar
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    HEY! Wanna talk about the Schools or about City Council . . ?

    Get back here where you belong . . .
    "A man with a firearm is a citizen... a man without one is a subject"

  2. #22
    Silver Member Loren Swelk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandra View Post
    I think CSAPs are a large part of the problem. Kids are performing for the CSAPs, not for their own education - which is a disservice to the entire community. I think CSAPs should be abolished and we need the Iowa Basics brought back.
    Kids are performing for the CSAP's because that is what is being taught. The teachers are under so much pressuure to have good CSAP scores that they are forced to "teach to the test". If it doesn't stand the possibility of being on the CSAP test, then it will fall be the wayside in the lesson plan.
    "The short memories of the American voters is what keeps our politicians in office." ~Will Rogers

  3. #23
    Forum Royalty large's Avatar
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    Now, about Growth and the Schools . .

    The nature of the thing is that as a city or town physically expands the schools follow, as I Illucidated earlier. And there's all sorts of things that can and often do happen . . The old schools in the core becomes the "Dumping Ground" for the less talented or ineffective teachers, most of whom are Tenured and cannot be fired by less than an act of Congress and a decision by the Supreme Court. That's one of those things that happen when a city grows quickly, generally. Or as in Pueblo, the citizens move into new areas, leaving older neighborhoods to the renters or the elderly, and for the most part, Build new schools as they move . .

    Now, physical growth in Pueblo, and coloring within the lines is a chore . . Because? Geographic Barriers and economics . . Just about the only directions left to expand the city is North up the East side of the Fountain River, and South to the ridge that defines the St. Charles drainage to the South and the Pueblo basin to the North and West. East of I-25, south of Pueblo is basically an I-2 area, West on 76 is filling in and directly west on 96 is all State property (The Dam) and anything over the ridge is out of play because of development costs . . Pueblo, physically, is about as big as it can get unless it decides to annex the St. Charles Mesa . . And That ain't gonna happen . . For about 10,000+ reasons . .

    So, basically, the Pueblo School District is going to have to learn to live within their means, put out a superior product and do it very efficiently . . because what you see now is pretty much what you're gonna get!
    "A man with a firearm is a citizen... a man without one is a subject"

  4. #24
    Silver Member Loren Swelk's Avatar
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    Well this is certainly a game changer

    BREAKING NEWS: Judge Sheila Rappaport rules in favor of the Lobato Trial plaintiffs, finds that Colorado is not complying with the constitutional right of every child to a "thorough and uniform system of free public schools."

    The state of Colorado was found be underfunding K-12 education an amount possibly in the billions of dollars.
    "The short memories of the American voters is what keeps our politicians in office." ~Will Rogers

  5. #25
    Administrator Sandra's Avatar
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    WOW! What a find! I am TOTALLY impressed!
    Opinions expressed by me are mine only and are not in any way, shape, or form representative of the Pueblo Chieftain or Pueblo Community Forums.

  6. #26
    Administrator Sandra's Avatar
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    Kids are performing for the CSAP's because that is what is being taught. The teachers are under so much pressuure to have good CSAP scores that they are forced to "teach to the test". If it doesn't stand the possibility of being on the CSAP test, then it will fall be the wayside in the lesson plan.
    Exactly! And that's the problem. I had hoped that when Governor Owens left office that his CSAPs would leave right along with him - because they've done nothing but make Colorado's already bad educational system worse.
    Opinions expressed by me are mine only and are not in any way, shape, or form representative of the Pueblo Chieftain or Pueblo Community Forums.

  7. #27
    Forum Royalty large's Avatar
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    On Loren's Post; It will be appealed. And if the current decision holds, the State of Colorado can basically, declare bankruptcy . . There in nowhere enough revenue to enable the State to finance the court's recommendations . . and then the state can go back and use TABOR as their reason no more revenue can be raised . .

    On CSAP . . what the Hell do you mean, "Teaching to the Test"?

    When I was in school, eons ago, the teacher taught and gave you work on specific things relating to the subject you were supposed to be learning. You also had homework related to that particular subjective section, and then on Friday, generally, you were tested on what you had learned that week . . That test was generally 50% of your grade for that week's period of time . . At the end of the semester you took a test on everything that had been presented to you on that subject, and that grade was 50% of your overall grade for the subject. I'm going to assume that this was . . "Teaching to the Test"?

    How the Hell do you figure out that anyone has learned diddly squat if you can't test them on it? CSAP is just a "Standardized" Test, and it should show a standard level of learning across the state's student population. It's nothing more than a exotic "Jay Walking" test. It tests "General Knowledge" on a standardized format . .

    How would YOU test the state's high school graduates to find out if the Public Education System is working? (We know it isn't)
    "A man with a firearm is a citizen... a man without one is a subject"

  8. #28
    Administrator Sandra's Avatar
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    Large, the CSAPs are so difficult that the teachers have to form their curriculums around the test. It used to be that Standardized tests tested the student's knowledge and ability to learn - and did not "set" the curriculum standards. But now - the curriculum standard is based on a CSAP, and interferes with a normal curriculum, and does not allow for teachers to meet the needs of the students because now the focus is on meeting the needs of the test. It makes no consideration or concession for special needs children or gifted children, although you almost have to be gifted to pass the durned thing. This test is meant to measure school overall performance, so pressure is put on the students to perform for the school rather than the school performing for the students. It's just very backwards and stupid.

    It used to be that education expanded the mind, equipping students with the ability to think and reason. Now it's more of a 'rote' kind of thing. They're learning that 1 + 1 = 2, but not why. They're learning vocabulary without learning why a word is pronounced a certain way or why it means what it does. How many students today know what a word root is?

    They're so busy learning the answers to the CSAPs that they're not learning anything that expands their ability to think and reason for themselves. I am CONVINCED that the dumbing down of America started with Colorado's CSAPs.
    Opinions expressed by me are mine only and are not in any way, shape, or form representative of the Pueblo Chieftain or Pueblo Community Forums.

  9. #29
    Forum Royalty large's Avatar
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    Back to my question . .

    How would YOU test the state's high school graduates to find out if the Public Education System is working? (We know it isn't)
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  10. #30
    Silver Member Loren Swelk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by large View Post
    Back to my question . .

    How would YOU test the state's high school graduates to find out if the Public Education System is working? (We know it isn't)
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    I agree that a proficiency exam should be passed before a high school diploma is given, however the CSAP does neither. It does not test an individua'ls proficiency, it tests a schools. The CSAP's begin in the 3rd grade. How are we going to know that "Johnny can't read" when the test tells us only that 13% of the 3rd graders in John Q. Public Elementary School are proficieant in reading? We don't know who the heck they are, but there are 87% of them who ain't(?) proficient.

    I would really like a professional educator who has lived and worked under the CSAP program to weigh in here, because I am passing along information given to me from various teachers and administrators, not first hand knowledge.
    "The short memories of the American voters is what keeps our politicians in office." ~Will Rogers

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