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Thread: The City's spending agenda

  1. #11
    Silver Member masonranch's Avatar
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    Angry Recall the B**tards

    Quote Originally Posted by large View Post
    Big Town Hall meeting dealing with "Code infractions and how to deal with them" . .

    After an hour of explaination of why we can't enforce all those codes because we don't have any money (familiar cry, I have to say) and the lame "But, We're interested and trying", they gave 75 people the floor for about 30 minutes.
    Public officials are required to have public hearings. However their minds are ALREADY made up. The public meeting is really just an opportunity for the public to rubber stamp their theft and tyranny against the public.

    I used to go to these meetings thinking they had some effect. When over 95% of those that would show up opposed the new grandiose plans but they went ahead anyway, the mask was off. The public officials would just say that those that showed up were a small group of extremist that didn't represent the majority, whom they somehow seemed to have a direct link to.

    Bottom line public meetings are a waste of time. Throw the bums out. If you can't wait until the next election, start a recall petition. That is all these egomaniac politicians understand. I'm proud to have campaigned against and been a part in the early termination of Wayne Wolf's big government political career. He was our county commissioner, then, term limited, He ran for congress and lost (HOPE I WAS PART OF THAT) and didn't make the primary for state senator this time. Maybe the proverbial wooden stake has finally been driven so the undead won't rise again.
    Last edited by masonranch; 01-02-2011 at 04:26 PM.
    The difference between a welfare state and a totalitarian state is a matter of time - Ayn Rand

    The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”- Patrick Henry

  2. #12
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    New York Times

    Public Workers Face Outrage as Budget Crises Grow
    By MICHAEL POWELL
    Published: January 1, 2011

    FLEMINGTON, N.J. — Ever since Marie Corfield’s confrontation with Gov. Chris Christie this fall over the state’s education cuts became a YouTube classic, she has received a stream of vituperative e-mails and Facebook postings.

    “People I don’t even know are calling me horrible names,” said Ms. Corfield, an art teacher who had pleaded the case of struggling teachers. “The mantra is that the problem is the unions, the unions, the unions.” ...

    ...a growing cadre of political leaders and municipal finance experts argue that much of the edifice of municipal and state finance is jury-rigged and, without new revenue, perhaps unsustainable. Too many political leaders, they argue, acted too irresponsibly, failing to either raise taxes or cut spending.

    A brutal reckoning awaits, they say....

    ...Fred Siegel, a historian at the conservative-leaning Manhattan Institute, has written of the “New Tammany Hall,” which he describes as the incestuous alliance between public officials and labor.

    “Public unions have had no natural adversary; they give politicians political support and get good contracts back,” Mr. Siegel said. “It’s uniquely dysfunctional.” ...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/02/bu...html?src=busln

  3. #13
    Administrator Sandra's Avatar
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    Generally, the problem with these meetings is that they turn into b!tch sessions. People show up and bark, but offer no viable solutions. If people would approach the city with a solution, we might get somewhere. We can't just sit back and ask our representatives on Council to do all of our thinking for us.

    You say 'throw the bums out' but I have never seen you offer any replacement ideas.

    Public meetings would not be a waste of time if the people would follow up after those meetings. Get with your elected official and ask them how things are going since the last meeting. If enough people do that, you'll see a lot more progress. The community needs to always be involved if anything is going to be accomplished. Council and the community need to work together. We can't just elect someone into office then forget about them. We're their employers - we need to stay in touch with them and work with them.

  4. #14
    Silver Member masonranch's Avatar
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    Angry The Delphi Technique

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandra View Post
    You say 'throw the bums out' but I have never seen you offer any replacement ideas.

    You got it. You need to elect me or people like me that don't want more government solutions. If ball parks are that great and profitable, let the private sector fund them. If not then maybe they aren't that profitable but only theft from those that don't want to involuntary fund 'em.

    Public meetings would not be a waste of time if the people would follow up after those meetings. Get with your elected official and ask them how things are going since the last meeting. If enough people do that, you'll see a lot more progress. The community needs to always be involved if anything is going to be accomplished. Council and the community need to work together. We can't just elect someone into office then forget about them. We're their employers - we need to stay in touch with them and work with them.
    Look up the "Delphi Technique". Take this extreme not real example, Suppose that city council wants to exterminate jews and I totally oppose that very premise. What the advocates would do is try to enlist my suport by limiting the discussion as to the "what's your ideas, how would you accomplish the task. We are not here to discuss not eliminating the jews but just your method or mine. That is the Delphi Technique.

    Or a real example, "If you don't like my vision for the next 100 years, what's yours?" That's also the Delphi Technique, when the question is improper as neither he or I have any right to impose a vision on anyone. People are quite capable of having their own vision for themselves.

    If you are not allowed to state an opposition to the very premise all that can happen is that government grows either this way or that but never contracts. I refuse to submit to the Delphi Technique.

    To remind you government at all levels now spends more than the sum total of all wages and salaries in this country. That is too much. Find a way to undo, not do more at all levels. That is not what Pueblo is doing.
    Last edited by masonranch; 01-02-2011 at 05:57 PM.
    The difference between a welfare state and a totalitarian state is a matter of time - Ayn Rand

    The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”- Patrick Henry

  5. #15
    Administrator Sandra's Avatar
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    You got it. You need to elect me or people like me that don't want more government solutions.
    I'd probably vote for you. Are you going to run for a seat in the next election?
    If ball parks are that great and profitable, let the private sector fund them.
    I think that if they're profitable, the city could make a few extra bucks off of 'em. :-)
    Last edited by Sandra; 01-02-2011 at 06:00 PM.

  6. #16
    Silver Member masonranch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandra View Post
    I'd probably vote for you. Are you going to run for a seat in the next election?


    I think that if they're profitable, the city could make a few extra bucks off of 'em. :-)
    Sorry Sandra, I don't live in Pueblo so can't, but Hey Large is there and he wrote an editorial. I think he should run don't you?
    The difference between a welfare state and a totalitarian state is a matter of time - Ayn Rand

    The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”- Patrick Henry

  7. #17
    Administrator Sandra's Avatar
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    Sorry Sandra, I don't live in Pueblo so can't,
    Well what did you offer for? lmao! Well, if you move here and run for office, I'll vote for you.

    I think Large would be another likely candidate, I'd probably vote for him, too.

    You gonna ever run, Large?

  8. #18
    Forum Royalty large's Avatar
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    On the running for office . . Nyet, the wife would kill me . . she's already sworn to if I were to . . .

    On your statement:
    I think that if they're profitable, the city could make a few extra bucks off of 'em. :-)
    Not in our town . . the City Council would make an "Enterprise" of it and lose their collective shirts . . Few, if any public funded, publicly operated operations or enterprises succeed . . and in order to disprove my statement, show me a few examples . . .

    Simply because there's little or no incentive to make a profit. Although Runyon Field (formerly a AA Minor league ball field back in the mid 50's) could be used as a positive example . . The only one I can think of offhand . .
    Last edited by large; 01-02-2011 at 06:41 PM.
    "A man with a firearm is a citizen... a man without one is a subject"

  9. #19
    Administrator Sandra's Avatar
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    On the running for office . . Nyet, the wife would kill me . . she's already sworn to if I were to . . .
    Well that spoils the fun!

  10. #20
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    In the city of Arvada, the city planners had a proposal on the table to go from competitive trash hauling to a single commercial trash hauler regulated by a contract from the city. The purported purpose of the City was to increase recycling. The opposition was well organized and the City Council and Mayor were bombarded with emails, phone calls and letters. The last public hearing was moved from City Council Chambers to the Arvada Center auditorium (capacity 2000) to accommodate a large attendance. Everyone still could not get in.

    As a result Council did drop the proposal for a single hauler. But instead of leaving trash to competitive pickup, they are modifying the proposal to allow for trash districts with a single hauler in each. The new proposal would insure that the independent haulers would be included in the mix along with the biggies like Waste Management. That's a clever proposal, because it reduces the money contributed by independent trash haulers to get information to the public and tests the persistence of a "short attention span" public.

    This is clearly a scheme to generate revenue, as the city will skim a portion of the trash hauling revenues. Therefore, the city will be persistent.

    Neighboring cities that have trash hauling regulated or conducted by the city all have reduced services and pay more (either directly or through city taxes). The most disconcerting part is that there is always a limited quantity of trash that will be picked up (without additional exorbitant fees). When my son lived in Longmont, we actually hauled trash home from his house to save him having to go to the dump. That's an expensive option in the Denver area. It's been 3 years since I went to the Leyden Landfill. At that time it was $45 for a pickup truck, regardless of the size of the load. In our current competitive system, my hauler has a written policy that limits pickup to 300 pounds, which is a lot. Yet, I know I've exceeded that amount with fall leaves and they still take it all.

    It's tough to beat city hall.
    Last edited by Bob Nattering; 01-03-2011 at 06:46 AM.

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