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Thread: Of Vick, Tim Donaghy and Rose . .

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    Default Of Vick, Tim Donaghy and Rose . .

    I suppose this ought to go into the Sports genre, but there are those who might have opinions about this who normally wouldn't crack the Sports thread . .

    OK, Vick is potentially copping a plea to get back into football whenever his Dogfighting Troubles are over ('course that may be when he's 65, who knows) and Tim Donaghy, the gambling basketball ref is gonna rat off other refs (and I'd bet there's more than one) for a lighter sentence . .

    Why should they get one?

    Pete Rose gambled, not to shave points or on his team to lose, but got BANNED from baseball for LIFE. "Charlie Hustle", with 4652 hits, something even Cal Ripken couldn't come close to, got BANNED from all that is and was for Pete Rose . .

    Are the guys who gamble, cheat and fix events in Contemporary Professional Sports any better than Pete Rose?

    If so . . WHY?
    "A man with a firearm is a citizen... a man without one is a subject"

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    Junior Member Old Sweater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by large View Post

    Pete Rose gambled, not to shave points or on his team to lose, but got BANNED from baseball for LIFE. "Charlie Hustle", with 4652 hits, something even Cal Ripken couldn't come close to, got BANNED from all that is and was for Pete Rose . .
    First of all I'll admit that I cannot stand Rose and the hate started long before the gambling accusations. Started in 1976 when the Big Red Machine trounced my Yankees in 4 straight then hated him even more in the 1980 WS when he would bounce the ball off the astroturf on the 3rd out when he was playing 1st for the WS champ Phillies when they beat the Royals.

    2nd/ Rose never would have broke Ty Cobbs hit record of 4,191 hits if he wasn't his own manager at the end of his career. Rose hurt his teams chance of winning by putting himself in a the lineup just to break a record.

    It took Rose 2,619 more at bats to get 65 more hits. That is roughly 6 more seasons.

    Pete Rose gambled, not to shave points or on his team to lose, but got BANNED from baseball for LIFE.
    No one shaves points in baseball. There isn't any. Even if Rose is telling the truth, which I doubt, about just betting on his team to win, will cost your team victories in the long 162 game season. Since he said he just bet baseball as a manager, which I doubt, you can burn up the bullpen, keep your ace pitcher in the game to long past his pitch count and play your players that have a nagging injury and should be given a day or two rest. There is many things a manager can do wrong on betting on his team to win. Most people that don't watch the game just can't understand it.

    Then Rose denies betting on baseball and signs this.


    One question that puzzles many people is – if Rose did not bet on baseball why did he sign the settlement agreeing to being placed on the permanently ineligible list? Pete’s explanation is that he accepted the agreement because he knew that some punishment would be sanctioned upon him (he did admit to illegal gambling on NBA and NFL games and horseracing and the deputy commissioner, Fay Vincent, argued that this alone was basis for a permanent suspension). Continuing to fight in court might have lasted longer than a year so by signing the agreement he could apply for reinstatement in exactly one year


    http://www.athomeplate.com/pete2.shtml
    Then Rose admits to gambling to help sell his book and for a feeble attempt at reinstatement. He also done it right at the time that Robin Yount and Paul Molitor were being inducted into the Hall of Fame. Real prick that Rose is IMO for doing that to 2 great players in their week of fame.

    After 14 years of denials, Rose changed his answer to the question that has defined his post-playing career: Did he bet on baseball? "I did," he told ABC News. "That was my mistake for not coming clean a lot earlier."

    The confession became public three days before the release of his autobiography, My Prison Without Bars, in which Rose details his gambling addiction. ABC's Good Morning America aired portions of a Rose interview, recorded two weeks ago, to be shown in its entirety on Primetime Thursday. And Sports Illustrated released book excerpts.


    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...-05-rose_x.htm
    Then Rose finally gets it through his little pea brain that spot betting games is far worse for his image and reinstatement, so he opens his mouth and tells another lie. I bet each and every game which John Dowd denied. The Dowd report was checked 3 ways and Rose thought he could fool the public with another lie.

    Dowd told the program that Rose did not bet at all in the 1987 season when Mario Soto or Bill Gullickson pitched. He also said that Rose bet while he was playing.


    Dowd said Rose will never get into the Hall of Fame and should just "get used to it."


    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2798498
    People that think that Rose did no wrong on betting on his team to win are wrong themselves. Rose placed bets right under the NO GAMBLING sign, from his managers office. He spot bet games so when he wasn't betting it sent up a red flag to the bookies to bet on the other team. Also Rose was so far in debt to the bookies that it is more possible then not that the bookies convinced him on throwing games. I hear they have a way of doing that.

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    Junior Member Old Sweater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Old Sweater'
    The NFL like MLB has put themselves in a corner with the Vick matter. They should have had stricker suspenions in previous years.

    Look at the bottom and there is a player named Christian Peter accused twice for rape in college that played for 3 NFL teams.

    NFL should worry about felons, not Owens4. Paul Hornung and Alex Karras
    Hornung, the Packers "Golden Boy" running back and 1961 MVP, and Karras, an All-Pro defensive tackle for the Lions, were forced to sit out the 1963 season, suspended by NFL commish Pete Rozelle for betting on NFL games and associating with gamblers. Hornung had bet up to $500 on games, said Rozelle, and Karras had placed at least a half dozen $50-$100 bets.


    Hornung apologized. "I made a terrible mistake," he said. "I am truly sorry." Karras also said he was sorry, in his own way. Upon returning to action in 1964, he refused when an official asked him to call the pregame coin toss: "I'm sorry, sir," he said. "I'm not permitted to gamble

    November 9, 2005

    I probably shouldn't talk about this -- because I absolutely abhor the NFL, and by talking about this, it only highlights the league more -- but I can't stand by and listen to this garbage much longer. Terrell Owens, the scourge of the Earth ... for yapping his trap?

    Are you kidding me?

    Ray Lewis, lauded as the human highlight every week, obstructed justice -- and that's letting him off easy -- in a murder investigation. Leonard Little, a hero of a defensive lineman in St. Louis, killed a woman while driving drunk.

    Jamal Lewis was cheered when he returned from a four-month stay in prison for drug trafficking. Now we're all so concerned about Jamal's "feelings" and why he isn't playing like he used to. Just a hunch: he was in prison for four months.

    Michael Pittman, rammed his Hummer into his wife's car -- with his 2-year-old son inside -- and was cheered earlier this season when he stepped in for an injured Cadillac Williams and ran for 100-plus yards.


    http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...2b457bf20515cf

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Over 21% of the NFL's players have been arrested or indicted of major felonies.

    http://www.thecommentary.ca/archives/20030925K.html

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Consider just some of the cases that escaped the former commissioner's wrath. In the 1990s, Christian Peter, then an All-Big Eight defensive tackle, was arrested eight times at Nebraska, where he was twice accused of rape — charges resulting in one out-of-court settlement and another conviction for sexual assault. Though the Patriots relinquished their draft rights to Peter, he would eventually play for three NFL teams.

    Then there was Peter's Nebraska teammate, Lawrence Phillips, who pleaded to a brutal domestic abuse case before St. Louis took him with the sixth pick in 1996. Phillips would be arrested three times over the next 19 months. Later, the Dolphins would release him after he was accused of hitting a woman in a bar. Of course, that incident proved an insufficient deterrent for the 49ers who also gave him a shot.

    Next, Rams defensive end Leonard Little. In 1998, while driving drunk, he ran a red light and killed Susan Gutweiler, a 47-year-old wife and mother. As per Little's plea deal, he got 90 nights in a work release program and 1,000 hours of community service. In 2004, Little beat another drunk driving case. Last year, he signed a new contract with St. Louis.

    Jamal Lewis, a convicted drug trafficker, was suspended for all of two games.

    Finally, there's Ray Lewis, who pleaded to obstruction of justice in a double-murder case. Today, he's more of a hero than ever.


    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1151432AA4AKBn


    And here are the only 3 that I could find that actually recieved a lifetime suspension and wan't reinstated.

    Life - Art Schlichter, Indianapolis, gambling, suspended for one year on June 1983. Was released following the 1985 season; pleaded guilty to an illegal gambling charge April 1, 1987. NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle did not reinstate after Schlichter applied for permission to re-sign.

    Life - Stanley Wilson, Cincinnati, substance abuse, suspended Jan. 22, 1989; permanently banned May 15, 1989.

    Life - Earl Ferrell, Phoenix, 1990, substance abuse, voluntarily retired.
    Last edited by Old Sweater; 08-30-2007 at 03:38 AM. Reason: added to post

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    While, apparently, you don't like Rose (almost obvious, heh, heh . . ) My point is this . . where's the equality? If Rose can be banned for life for his Gambling, (and it doesn't really matter how or who he gambled on) with no substance abuse, no state felonies or Interstate (federal) felonies, then why do we see other professional players, no matter the sport, convicted of such crimes, still playing?

    And the lame argument that Vick should be reinstated and allowed to play Football again after he serves his time, because "He's paid his debt to society" is pure bullsh*t . . He's an Ex Con . . Let's see if he can get a job, based upon what he learned in college . . or will any potential employer look at him as I do, someone who attaches no value to life . . who looks at giving and taking life as no more than another "Sport" . . because it doesn't matter how many dogs Vick killed (or had killed), the act of watching two animals, or people for that matter, kill each other for "Sport" is sick and inhuman.

    And then he says "He's found God" . . is he going to go into Rehab too?
    "A man with a firearm is a citizen... a man without one is a subject"

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    Junior Member Old Sweater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by large View Post
    While, apparently, you don't like Rose (almost obvious, heh, heh . . ) My point is this . . where's the equality? If Rose can be banned for life for his Gambling, (and it doesn't really matter how or who he gambled on) with no substance abuse, no state felonies or Interstate (federal) felonies, then why do we see other professional players, no matter the sport, convicted of such crimes, still playing?

    There is equality as far as Rose go's. Every baseball player that has been caught gambling on his own team or being part of a fixed game has received a lifetime suspension, same as Rose. Rose was also convicted and served time for tax evasion. He has admitted to taking greenies or amphetamines. Rose is far from the All American picture that his backers like to think of him.

    (and it doesn't really matter how or who he gambled on)
    Huh! Maybe not to you. He broke what has always been baseballs #1 rule. There is a reason that a no gambling sign is required in the clubhouse. You are certainly welcome to find one baseball player that hasn't received a lifetime ban for gambling on his own team like Rose did if you really think he got screwed on the matter.

    Your other questions is covered in the links I posted previously. You can't make up new conduct suspension laws for Vick that wasn't previously enforced and have any equality.




    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_L...eball_scandals



    Posted: Tuesday, 03 October 2006 5:17AM

    Pete Rose Admits Taking 'Greenies' for Diet Reasons


    NEW YORK (AP) -- Pete Rose says he took ``greenies'' in his playing days, if only to lose a few pounds. Oh, and he doesn't bet on baseball anymore, but if he did, he'd pick the Twins and the Padres.

    In an appearance on the ``Late Show'' taped Monday, Rose was asked by host David Letterman whether he ever used any performance-enhancing drugs as a player. Rose said he never did, but when prodded about ``greenies,'' explained that he used them _ though they were nothing more than ``diet pills.''

    ``Well, I don't think greenies would ever help you do anything,'' he said. ``You know, I took greenies before in spring training only because I tried to lose some weight, see.''

    Letterman then asked whether the pills ever helped him ward off fatigue.

    ``No, not like steroids,'' Rose replied. ``If I took steroids, I'd have gotten 5,000 damn hits.''
    Last edited by Old Sweater; 08-30-2007 at 08:59 PM.

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    Junior Member Old Sweater's Avatar
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    I think these are great!

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    And you know all of this to be absolutely to be true because . .

    You are (or have been) a Professional Sports Commissioner . .

    You don't like Pete Rose . . (because the Red's beat the Yankees. That alone tells me you must not like anybody except the Rockies, because, while I don't know for sure, I'd bet that they are the only team that hasn't)

    You were Billy Graham and Byron White's Teacher . .

    All of the above . .


    And then you say:
    "You can't make up new conduct suspension laws for Vick that wasn't previously enforced and have any equality."
    Wanna bet? The Feds may be through with Vick, and perhaps even Pro Football has made all their decisions, but the states are just getting started and I'm gonna bet that by the time Vick gets through serving the state time, he'll have to play Football with a walker . . How's that for "Equality"?
    "A man with a firearm is a citizen... a man without one is a subject"

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    Junior Member Old Sweater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by large View Post
    And you know all of this to be absolutely to be true because . .

    You are (or have been) a Professional Sports Commissioner . .

    You don't like Pete Rose . . (because the Red's beat the Yankees. That alone tells me you must not like anybody except the Rockies, because, while I don't know for sure, I'd bet that they are the only team that hasn't)

    You were Billy Graham and Byron White's Teacher . .

    All of the above . .


    And then you say:

    Wanna bet? The Feds may be through with Vick, and perhaps even Pro Football has made all their decisions, but the states are just getting started and I'm gonna bet that by the time Vick gets through serving the state time, he'll have to play Football with a walker . . How's that for "Equality"?
    Or vice versa on your part. How much have you ever read on Pete Rose? Not much I assume since you used the word "Points instead of Runs" one thing any baseball fan never says. They have him by the short hairs like it or not. Convicted felon, admitted gambler, admitted drug user and a proven liar. What is there to like about the guy? Like I said in my first post, I long disliked Rose long before any of the accusations came along. Rose also ended catcher Ray Fosse's career, taking him out at home in a meaningless all star game.

    You were Billy Graham and Byron White's Teacher . .
    That is hardly true. My signature on 4 baseball boards is.

    "I've cheated, or someone on my team has cheated, in almost every single game I've been in."> Rogers Hornsby
    This from a man who averaged .400 for four seasons 1921-1924

    I'm gonna bet that by the time Vick gets through serving the state time, he'll have to play Football with a walker . . How's that for "Equality"?
    Not unless they make a apple out of Vick's felony compared to oranges for the other NFL felonies. Guess the courts could make up some new laws also for Vick compared to all the other NFL felons.

    One year in prison and back in the NFL by 2010 for all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ staring the NFL in the face.

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    Junior Member Old Sweater's Avatar
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    Here you go Large. The John Dowd Report on Pete Rose.

    Read it with a open mind and see if you are still on the Pete Rose bandwagon after you are through.

    http://www.baseball1.com/bb-data/ros...owd_cover.html

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    Goodell said he would review the suspension after all the legal proceedings against Vick are complete.

    Vick is scheduled to plead guilty to federal dogfighting charges on Monday, but prosecutors took the unusual step of filing his plea agreement three days in advance because the case has attracted so much publicity. The agreement says Vick will plead guilty to a single conspiracy count and that prosecutors would recommend a sentence on the low end of federal guidelines, which both sides agree are 12 to 18 months in prison.

    A source familiar with the plea negotiations had said Vick's attorneys hoped that the indirect wording of Vick's admissions on gambling and the killing of dogs would provide him with some measure of protection against possible state charges and an NFL suspension.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...082401044.html


    Definitely won't need a walker and has a very good chance at early reinstatement. NFL has been doing it for years. If he had been caught like Pete Rose gambling on his own team he would be suspended for life.

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